(April 30, 2017 at 3:25 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My opinion on vaccines lies somewhere in the middle of all this pro/anti vax debate.

Vaccines are safe for most people. But for a small subset of people who have a particular type of methylation problem and are thus more susceptible to toxins and heavy metals, vaccines can be harmful and cause some life long issues such as autism. Because these ppl have a methylation problem, their bodies have a harder time processing and eliminating toxins. The Autism Research Institute says that we should take time to discern what vaccines are applicable/beneficial to our children, and suggests that we space out the vaccines, especially on babies.

Source please.

(April 30, 2017 at 7:05 pm)Aroura Wrote: Vaccines can indeed trigger some illnesses though, such as epilepsy.  That being said, those children already HAD epilepsy, and something would have triggered it eventually..

Source?

(April 30, 2017 at 2:44 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(April 30, 2017 at 1:58 pm)chimp3 Wrote: That is the whole point of medicine! Keeping alive those who would have died otherwise. Now we are passing on the genes of those mammals (us) who are smart enough to avail themselves of medicine and science. Think of it like this , clothing helped those who would normally have frozen to death. So, they survived long enough to pass on the genes of those smart enough to make clothing.

Right.  As I said, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does account for the rise of all these other illnesses.  As well as massive overpopulation, pollution, global warming, etc....

If we are smart enough to make fire, clothing, stone tools, and vaccines I bet we are smart enough to solve over population and global warming. Going to require a struggle but I am an optimist!

(April 30, 2017 at 8:13 pm)Isis Wrote:

(April 30, 2017 at 7:05 pm)Aroura Wrote: Vaccines can indeed trigger some illnesses though, such as epilepsy.  That being said, those children already HAD epilepsy, and something would have triggered it eventually..

Source?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4657773/
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/832250

Stressors can trigger certain illnesses, like epilepsy. But those conditions already existed, just as yet untriggered.

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(April 30, 2017 at 8:55 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(April 30, 2017 at 2:44 pm)Aroura Wrote: Right.  As I said, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does account for the rise of all these other illnesses.  As well as massive overpopulation, pollution, global warming, etc....

If we are smart enough to make fire, clothing, stone tools, and vaccines I bet we are smart enough to solve over population and global warming. Going to require a struggle but I am an optimist!

I'm glad optimists exist. I used to be one. I guess I'd call myself more of a realist now. I don't think we are doomed for certain in the short term, but it also isn't looking good.

(April 30, 2017 at 10:21 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(April 30, 2017 at 8:13 pm)Isis Wrote: Source?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4657773/
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/832250

Stressors can trigger certain illnesses, like epilepsy. But those conditions already existed, just as yet untriggered.

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(April 30, 2017 at 8:55 pm)chimp3 Wrote: If we are smart enough to make fire, clothing, stone tools, and vaccines I bet we are smart enough to solve over population and global warming. Going to require a struggle but I am an optimist!

I'm glad optimists exist. I used to be one. I guess I'd call myself more of a realist now. I don't think we are doomed for certain in the short term, but it also isn't looking good.

Short term is frightening. Optimism is reserved for the long term!

Oh, and this discusses a bunch more studies about vaccines triggering existing illnesses, not causing them. The comments are really sad. It must be hard to accept that a disorder existed in your child and they would have suffered from it eventually, regardless. It feels better to have something other to blame than genetics.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/vaccine

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(April 30, 2017 at 10:31 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(April 30, 2017 at 10:21 pm)Aroura Wrote: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4657773/
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/832250

Stressors can trigger certain illnesses, like epilepsy. But those conditions already existed, just as yet untriggered.

---

I'm glad optimists exist. I used to be one. I guess I'd call myself more of a realist now. I don't think we are doomed for certain in the short term, but it also isn't looking good.

Short term is frightening. Optimism is reserved for the long term!

How long term, though? We cant last forever. Eventually the sun will die and eat the planet, if we are talking really long term, lol.

(April 30, 2017 at 3:25 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My opinion on vaccines lies somewhere in the middle of all this pro/anti vax debate.

Vaccines are safe for most people. But for a small subset of people who have a particular type of methylation problem and are thus more susceptible to toxins and heavy metals, vaccines can be harmful and cause some life long issues such as autism. Because these ppl have a methylation problem, their bodies have a harder time processing and eliminating toxins. The Autism Research Institute says that we should take time to discern what vaccines are applicable/beneficial to our children, and suggests that we space out the vaccines, especially on babies.

Vaccines do not cause autism this is widely known and well researched.
The autism research institute is a kooky alternative medicine "institute" showing that people can name shit whatever they want and should not be taken seriously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_Research_Institute

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

The man who fabricated the link was struck off in the UK and cannot practice medicine in the US.

Quote:Wakefield is barred from practising as a physician in the UK,[21] and is not licensed in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

(April 30, 2017 at 10:35 pm)Aroura Wrote: Oh, and this discusses a bunch more studies about vaccines triggering existing illnesses, not causing them. The comments are really sad. It must be hard to accept that a disorder existed in your child and they would have suffered from it eventually, regardless. It feels better to have something other to blame than genetics.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/vaccine

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(April 30, 2017 at 10:31 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Short term is frightening. Optimism is reserved for the long term!

How long term, though? We cant last forever. Eventually the sun will die and eat the planet, if we are talking really long term, lol.

5 billion years might be a bit optimistic for a primate species. Let's stick with the next century or two.

(May 1, 2017 at 5:39 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(April 30, 2017 at 3:25 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My opinion on vaccines lies somewhere in the middle of all this pro/anti vax debate.

Vaccines are safe for most people. But for a small subset of people who have a particular type of methylation problem and are thus more susceptible to toxins and heavy metals, vaccines can be harmful and cause some life long issues such as autism. Because these ppl have a methylation problem, their bodies have a harder time processing and eliminating toxins. The Autism Research Institute says that we should take time to discern what vaccines are applicable/beneficial to our children, and suggests that we space out the vaccines, especially on babies.

Vaccines do not cause autism this is widely known and well researched.
The autism research institute is a kooky alternative medicine "institute" showing that people can name shit whatever they want and should not be taken seriously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_Research_Institute

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

The man who fabricated the link was struck off in the UK and cannot practice medicine in the US.

Quote:Wakefield is barred from practising as a physician in the UK,[21] and is not licensed in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

If you google "Autism Research Institute methylation" you get: https://www.autism.com/pro_research_methionine

This may be what CL is referring to. The vid discusses methylation issues in autistic children but I didn't see anything about Hg or vaccinations. (long vid, didn't watch it all, might have missed something) I note that these are issues in children already diagnosed with autism (after the fact). 

The text below (unrelated to the vid) talks about the effects of Hg and thimerosal in tests on neuroblastoma cells in vitro and more than likely does not reflect Hg and thimerosal effects in children after vaccination. I'm unable to identify the source of the original publication.

I'm going to wait for CL to identify her source before I make and further comments regarding her post.

(May 1, 2017 at 7:44 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 5:39 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Vaccines do not cause autism this is widely known and well researched.
The autism research institute is a kooky alternative medicine "institute" showing that people can name shit whatever they want and should not be taken seriously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_Research_Institute

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

The man who fabricated the link was struck off in the UK and cannot practice medicine in the US.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

If you google "Autism Research Institute methylation" you get: https://www.autism.com/pro_research_methionine

This may be what CL is referring to. The vid discusses methylation issues in autistic children but I didn't see anything about Hg or vaccinations. (long vid, didn't watch it all, might have missed something) I note that these are issues in children already diagnosed with autism (after the fact). 

The text below (unrelated to the vid) talks about the effects of Hg and thimerosal in tests on neuroblastoma cells in vitro and more than likely does not reflect Hg and thimerosal effects in children after vaccination. I'm unable to identify the source of the original publication.

I'm going to wait for CL to identify her source before I make and further comments regarding her post.

Yes, that is one of the sources I've seen regarding the link between autistic people and methylation issues. I never read anything from this Wakefield guy or even heard that name before. Anyway, it's an interesting video, if you're into that stuff and have time to watch it. 

I actually watched it on this other page (from the same site, Autism Research Institute), and also read the guidelines underneath. Their advice regarding vaccines is this:

 

Quote: Regarding vaccines

• Parents are choosing which vaccines to give after careful consideration of the child’s history and genetic background. For instance, if a child was born prematurely or has had recurrent ear infections, or if the parents have a history of autoimmune disorders or allergies, then these are indicators that the infant or toddler might not respond well to a vaccine (and certainly not when several are given at one time).
  
• If you decide to give a vaccine, make sure your child has not been ill recently or is not coming down with something. You also do not want to give a vaccine if the child has been on antibiotics or if they recently came off antibiotics. Ask for single-dose vials, and give one at a time, i.e., per visit. There are no long-term studies showing that giving multiple vaccines at once is a safe practice. I would also suggest priming your child’s immune system with immune-protective nutrients prior to vaccinating. You can give 250mg of Vitamin C, 2 or 3 Echinacea drops and ½ tsp. cod liver oil for a few days before and after the vaccine.
  
• Summary: We don’t have all the answers. No one does. But let us consider the research that has already be done, the stories of improvement and recovery from parents who have traveled this difficult path, and let’s apply common-sense precautionary principles as we prepare for, and enter motherhood. None of them can harm you or your baby.
  
• Maureen McDonnell has been a registered nurse for 33 years in the fields of childbirth education, clinical nutrition, labor and delivery, newborn nursery, and pediatrics.  Since the late 70s Maureen has been a vocal advocate and frequent lecturer promoting whole foods, green living and preventive health measures as the most logical and cost-effective methods for minimizing complications associated with pregnancy and birth, and reducing chronic illnesses in children. In 2008 Maureen co-founded Saving Our Kids, Healing Our Planet Green Expos http://www.SOKHOP.com and established the blog Raising Healthy Kids Naturally at http://www.RaisingHealthyKidsNaturally.blogspot.com.
  

The bottom line is, research in this area is still ongoing. 

One thing is true: there is a link between children who develop autism and children who have a genetic methylation problem. Among other things, having a methylation problem means you have a harder time producing glutathione which is the body's most powerful antioxidant and plays a major role in eliminating and processing the toxic chemicals and heavy metals that find their way into our bodies. A harsh chemical that is harmless to most people isn't necessarily harmless to those who have this genetic disorder, and how exactly that can effect their bodies and their brains (especially on unborn babies and newborns) is still being studied.        

To conclude right now that any number of vaccines on any person at any age is completely safe is, in my opinion, just as foolish as concluding that none of them ever are. That's why it is advised to learn about each vaccine individually and to discern whether or not it is applicable to your child, trying to space out the vaccines, and trying to get some of them done at a later age if doing so makes sense. I don't know why anyone would say this isn't a sensible approach. 

The shit I've been through in the past year has taught me to not just blindly follow whatever any doctor says, but I don't need to get started on that.