(May 23, 2017 at 4:41 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(May 23, 2017 at 4:33 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Id say covering it up for decades. And holding priests immune to secular law and not kicking them out.  Just to maintain the churches image is religiously motivated

Don't forget that the church identifies priests as adhering to and representing a higher moral standard.

Yup a lack of condemnation of an act at the time of the act and a attempt cover up the crime .Is a damning as if the pope himself had approval of the act carved into Vatican walls  itself

(May 23, 2017 at 4:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 23, 2017 at 3:35 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: I my defense (thou I was wrong)

Would I believe uber nationalists would copy Islamic states tactics to

1. Sow anti immigrant hatred

2. Because Islamic state has stolen there tactics from other groups

3. Because they have lost by legitimate means and now seek to win by violence

Well, they didn't. 

There is a reason why when something like this happens, everyone automatically knows it's radical islam. Because the vast majority of the time, it is. Political correctness be damned in my opinion. No one here is saying Muslims are at fault. We are specifically talking about radical, extremist Muslims who think Allah wants them to kill everyone who is not them.

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(May 23, 2017 at 3:41 pm)alpha male Wrote: For the same reason you'd bring up Catholic pedophiles in a discussion of Islamic terrorism, I suppose.

My thoughts exactly.

And for the record, the difference between an Islamic terrorist and a Catholic pedophile is that the terrorist is religiously motivated to commit those crimes. The priest who rapes kids is not motivated by his religion to do so.

That's like saying there is a difference between human poo and rat poo. 

No sorry, but again, first off you keep missing the point that nobody was singling out Catholics for pointing out their past. Hiding ANY crime is the same as justifying any crime when it comes to ANY religion. 

YES people in the Islamic countries can and do use the Koran to justify violence, as well as child brides. But again both have the same thing in common, religion being used as an excuse to do both, either in hiding a crime or committing a crime. 

If a flock or the power structure seeks to hide a holy person's crime I could give a shit less. The problem is humans far too often trust their religious leaders and that is NOT where our species morality is coming from. Nobody is singling you out. 

The Catholic priest is preying upon not only the victim, but upon his followers to blindly assume he can do no wrong and he uses religion to do that. The same thing happens when a Cleric justifies a child bride, or sells violent ideas, he is portraying himself as being beyond reproach and using religion to get others to follow and or protect him.

Religion is what all holy people hide behind when they fear scrutiny. It still remains that Islam does not own a patent on committing crime and that is why we point to the past. 

I am a former Catholic myself. I am sorry, but the rosy history you've been sold of that institution isn't as rosy as you'd like it to be. St Peter's Square contains a stolen Egyptian Obelisk Caligula set up as a monument to himself. The early days of the Catholic Church were barbaric, and even during WW2 many Catholics, collaborated with and or turned a blind eye to what the Nazis did. The Vatican's official stance even while surrounded by fascist Italy was "neutral". Now if you want to argue majorities vs minorities that is a separate subject, it was not 100% squeaky clean. No religion is ever 100% squeaky clean in it's history. 

The only thing I am pointing out and I think others here would agree, DONT ignore world history even if you are rightfully pointing at others. Our species has a collective history and focusing on one label at one point and one region misses a much longer and bigger sample rate. 

If a famous atheist were caught molesting a kid, or was openly advocating for mass violence, I would expect the same condemnation even in that case. 

I've done it before here on this website in other threads CL, please don't make me waste the time once again posting articles about the history of crime and violence of every religion because there is a wider history and it is global and there has never been, or ever will be such a thing as a religious history that has not had its baggage. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_violence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_violence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_...e_in_India

Now that is just religiously justified violence. You can find sexism in all the world's religions too. 

Nobody should try to claim Islam is perfect or that the Koran does not contain justifications for violence. Unless you take world history into account, you are doomed in the future to repeat the very same things you say we as humans should not do. 

FYI at least with me, you know my history of posts here don't call me PC at least me, I don't represent all liberals or all atheists for that matter.

(May 23, 2017 at 4:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 23, 2017 at 3:35 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: I my defense (thou I was wrong)

Would I believe uber nationalists would copy Islamic states tactics to

1. Sow anti immigrant hatred

2. Because Islamic state has stolen there tactics from other groups

3. Because they have lost by legitimate means and now seek to win by violence

Well, they didn't. 

There is a reason why when something like this happens, everyone automatically knows it's radical islam. Because the vast majority of the time, it is. Political correctness be damned in my opinion. No one here is saying Muslims are at fault. We are specifically talking about radical, extremist Muslims who think Allah wants them to kill everyone who is not them.

---

Look, I absolutely ABHOR radical islam.  And I also admit that mainstream islam has become more conservative over the last 20 or so years (and probably even slightly more radical).
But your statement here (my bold) is just flat out false.

Non muslims carry out 90% of terrorist attacks (2013 - USA)

And 98% in Europe (2015)

The media and certain groups of people just don't focus on them nearly as much.

Even if these are slightly out of date, and the statistics have risen for muslims, That is not anywhere near "the majority of the time".

It makes me feel icky to point this out in a thread about a group of murdered young people, so I'm not going to comment further except to say regardless of who did it or why it happened, my heart truly grieves with the families and loved ones of those lost, and injured.  

It honestly scares the fuck out of me, and being the paranoid person I am, I will likely avoid large crowd while I'm in Germany (I already do that in America), not because of radical Islam specifically, but because of the monsters we find in every group of people.

Peace.

(May 23, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(May 23, 2017 at 4:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well, they didn't. 

There is a reason why when something like this happens, everyone automatically knows it's radical islam. Because the vast majority of the time, it is. Political correctness be damned in my opinion. No one here is saying Muslims are at fault. We are specifically talking about radical, extremist Muslims who think Allah wants them to kill everyone who is not them.

---

Look, I absolutely ABHOR radical islam.  And I also admit that mainstream islam has become more conservative over the last 20 or so years (and probably even slightly more radical).
But your statement here (my bold) is just flat out false.

Non muslims carry out 90% of terrorist attacks (2013 - USA)

And 98% in Europe (2015)

The media and certain groups of people just don't focus on them nearly as much.

Even if these are slightly out of date, and the statistics have risen for muslims, That is not anywhere near "the majority of the time".

It makes me feel icky to point this out in a thread about a group of murdered young people, so I'm not going to comment further except to say regardless of who did it or why it happened, my heart truly grieves with the families and loved ones of those lost, and injured.  

It honestly scares the fuck out of me, and being the paranoid person I am, I will likely avoid large crowd while I'm in Germany (I already do that in America), not because of radical Islam specifically, but because of the monsters we find in every group of people.

Peace.

That STILL does not constitute the majority of migrants regardless. Just like most Mexicans who migrate to America are not violent criminals. I will not live in fear of my fellow human on the off chance of being murdered. You are still far more likely to die in a car accident or die from a domestic murder than you are to be killed by an illegal migrant or a terrorist.

You cave into "otherism" you are giving the terrorists exactly what they want. 

It makes me feel horrible when any kid dies as a result of adult beefs. especially when those adults hide behind ANY religion.

---

Oh and the weekend of June 2nd, I will be going to a crowed restaurant, which can be a target of a mentally ill gun nutter, is that likely to happen? No. I am also going that weekend to a very popular aquarium which is also crowed on the weekend. That could also be a target for ether a nut with a gun or a terrorist. I fear more other drivers on the road than I do about dying under those other conditions.

(May 23, 2017 at 4:38 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: The number of pedophiles in the catholic church is irrelevant (thou I question how many there have been considering we know we can't trust the church on the matter) The consorted and extravagant efforts to hide the truth is.

Not to mention that by dint of their position, they're doing it under the color of (moral) "authority".

Rather undermines any claim of religion imbuing morality when its own leaders suffer such moral turpitude.

Every Muslim is so evil that a Pakistani migrant Muslim who drove a van taxi took 24 kids home for FREE at the concert. He said "That could have been my own daughter". Just watched that interview on the news. He is why I refuse to assume guilt as a blanket tactic.

Quote:My thoughts exactly.

Again, I brought it up in response to the comments about the Crusades. I didn't randomly bring up pedophile dickhead priests in a thread about Islamic terrorism.

Quote:And for the record, the difference between an Islamic terrorist and a Catholic pedophile is that the terrorist is religiously motivated to commit those crimes. The priest who rapes kids is not motivated by his religion to do so.

Both are protected by their religions.

The BBC is reporting that the bomber was a native, born right in Manchester.

The list of victims is truly heartbreaking.

So basically Islam is a religion of peace, those that commit atrocities have been brainwashed by others.
Therefore they are also victims!

Right!?

My question is if you take away the martyrdom aspect, how many actual people would blow themselves up for "other" reasons? A lot less I would imagine. This is why religion is the instrument entirely responsible for the atrocities.

It needs to go. It is long overdue.

The last three big attacks in Europe were carried out by people who "were known to authorities" but considered a "low level risk".

Perhaps now would be the time to round up all the fuckers "known to authorities" and get whatever information you can out of them. If evidence comes up that they're associating with, supporting of, or members of, any terrorist group, deport the fuckers to Mosul - without a parachute.