(June 15, 2017 at 12:28 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(June 15, 2017 at 12:13 am)ignoramus Wrote: Married too, huh? Yeah, me too...

You love it!

(June 14, 2017 at 5:12 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(June 14, 2017 at 4:18 pm)alpha male Wrote: When someone makes an argument or asks a question supposing that god exists, the theist doesn't need to start from scratch with a first cause or other existence argument. You and zebo are tedious, shallow, one-trick ponies.

I know the theist does not need to start from scratch for their own beliefs.

Then stop jumping into threads on specific theological topics which necessarily take the existence of god as a given, and trying to change them to existence threads.

Quote:I was referring to a theist that wants to convince me that their beliefs are true.

No one was trying to convince you of anything.

Quote:You seem to have a bit of a problem comprehending my post. Check out the part I bolded above.

You seem to think that the world revolves around yourself and all theists are trying to convince you of something whenever they talk.

(June 15, 2017 at 12:13 am)ignoramus Wrote: Married too, huh? Yeah, me too...

More like a dominatrix without the sex part. (Shit, I think see heard me)

(June 14, 2017 at 7:02 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Theists, tell me, an atheist, why  your God has neglected to show himself to me?

Are you in an iron chariot ??

Can you seriously not understand that passage?

There isn't exactly alot of room for interpretation on that one?  God was with them, but apparently that wasn't enough to get rid of the assholes with the real nice toys.

There is ALWAYS room for interpretation when an inconvenient Bible truth rears its' ugly head


you don't see Christians ripping out gardens with more than one kind of seed growing, do you ??

and they are LOATHE to check for menstruation amongst their women folk who want to go worship. If they think menstruation is icky, imagine what God thinks about it !!!!!

Meh, I suppose, and I appreciate that some christers believe that the failure in that lay with the invading forces faith - that god could have gotten rid of those chariots...but didn't.  God would say that, though, wouldn't he?  

I, like this legendary army of hebrews, am skeptical of god's empty promises.

(June 15, 2017 at 11:20 am)Khemikal Wrote: Meh, I suppose, and I appreciate that some christers believe that the failure in that lay with the invading forces faith - that god could have gotten rid of those chariots...but didn't.  God would say that, though, wouldn't he?  

I, like this legendary army of hebrews, am skeptical of god's empty promises.

There you go. If God intends to use his people to accomplish a purpose and those people, lacking faith, don't show up, then the purpose might not be accomplished.

Before even getting this far, you could say that God couldn't drive anyone out because they were too powerful. See Numbers 13-14. God was able, but he waited for the next generation.

We see the same thing with Jesus in his hometown. 

Mark 6
5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6 And He marveled because of their unbelief. 

Jesus performed mighty works elsewhere. Even there he healed a few sick people. Why couldn't he do a mighty work there? Elsewhere, people came to Jesus with people needing a "mighty work," and he performed mighty works. Note that people have to have faith to bother taking someone to Jesus. Since people in his home town didn't have faith that he could perform mighty works, they didn't bring people requiring them, and so the works weren't performed.

God has performance anxiety.  

"Jesus" didn't do miracles for the same reason that god couldn't get rid of the be-charioted assholes. Personally, I think it's hilarious that people such as yourself will blame the crowd, and even the world, rather than admitting that your boy just can't shoot a fuckin free throw. Obviously, those ancient hebes weren't such suckers.

(June 14, 2017 at 7:24 pm)ignoramus Wrote: But god himself has personified himself to relate to us.
What else do we have to go by other than a god with human traits?
Are you saying people make stuff up by extrapolating? On whose authority?

If god hates gays, why did he create them gay?

The social environment is the first suspect in the homosexuality case.
A disturbed social system gives birth to confused men and women, who are unable to carry on the natural sexual process (natural because it produces children).

Look at the messed up social and cultural system to find the roots of homosexuality. From feminism to male sissyfing -I'm not sure that's a word; but it means where men become sissies-.

 Khemikal

Quote:Some atheists wonder why they haven't received similar assurances.  You call it arrogance when others wonder why they were not privy to the divine insight which was granted to you.  That, actually -is- arrogance.  

The design, though sufficient; is blocked by negative ideas that arrogance is one of them.
In other words: look at they skies then ask yourself: is there a creator?

The arrogance accusation comes from the answer to that question; one might answer: 

-No creator; because they the world is evolved around themselves or hence:their specie. They want to be God; and want to feel the drug  of "control".

-There is a creator; One just gave up ambitions of control; and surrendered to the truth; neglecting their own role because the world simply doesn't evolve around them. 

Quote:Pretty easy to tell when a movies been recorded...what with, you know, watching a recording we call a movie..........?

Splendid!
Using the same technology, we can see the universe being created; making the suggestion of an organised pattern that formed its atoms a very reasonable suggestion; even scientific and smart.

Quote:Meh, I don't think god has been twisted.  I think you correctly realize that these descriptions of god are hideous..but cannot allow that to penetrate your faith -in- that god.  You;ve been twisted, mostly by yourself.  

At this point I agree with atheists a lot; and part ways with many theists, I need to admit more and more that religious figures picture God as a product of their own fantasies or even a tool to achieve the interest in mind.

Defying these twisted images seems like common sense to me; but I'm still insisting that one correct description of God is missed out by atheism; and just like the rest of humanity: atheism itself took an extreme step towards a misty road.

I know I'm twisted. But I know exactly who caused that to me. And I'm being quite truthful when I say that only God heard me, and helped to cure my wounds.

Quote:If god cannot be expected to show a bare minimum of decency by such low standards as human standards...then god isn't "the way" anyway..so who cares? Some "human traits" are non-negotiable, even to believers. You believe your god to be just, one assumes? What justice is there in rewarding your sycophancy with surety while simultaneously damning another by his hiddenness?

None at all Katy, none at all.

End of the day, this is your baby..and you don;t get to write off god's stage fright as someone else's arrogance. That -also- fails the test of basic human decency.

He revealed books in human language, and sent human prophets. 

Sycophancy can only be seen shameful when it's paid to systems and other creations; bowing to kings and flags is quite shameful but not to the creator of the universe.

Justice is where we pay to the appropriate side. Who said that all the religious respect God? it appears to me that they respect and pay to their local Church or mosque; local Sheikh or priest.

ignoramus

Quote:Simon, check my sigs.

Atlas is a classic!

Nice man, just batshit 

I'm quite modern! 
I just respect brains from all eras; in that I don't think ancient people were retarded.

The Valkyrie 

The sun; Valkyrie. That's a sign; or the moon and the stars.
You witness them daily; even if you live indoors you must obey the clock. That's a sign repeated all of your life.

Cyberman

Quote:

Quote:AtlasS33 Wrote:I think it would be just wrong to accuse black holes -for example- or the sun in a dark night -as an other example- for not showing themselves.

Quote:Cyberman Wrote:

Yes. That would be silly. Because that would be chasing red herrings about things that we know exist, that we can investigate and measure, and for which we have data, instead of gods, the actual subject of this thread. 

Many scientific phenomena were mere "rumors" and "speculations"; and weren't proved until recently.
Take the Pulsars for example.

Logic and observing of the design makes it possible to anticipate what's hidden.

Quote:AtlasS33 Wrote:

[url=https://atheistforums.org/post-1568125.html#pid1568125][/url]If the sun -for example- showed itself in front of you, you will evaporate. 

If a black hole -for example- showed itself in front of you, you'll evaporate.
 

Quote:Cyberman Wrote:
The Sun ahows itself to us every day - it's basically in the definition of 'day'. While it can get pretty hot, I have yet to hear of anyone actually evaporating.

Black holes have a lot of properties; I'm not sure causing evaporation is among them. In fact, you can quite happily sit outside the event horizon of one and observe it to your heart's content (there's probably a radiation issue, but nothing insurmountable if you've managed to get there at all).

My current distance from you is shorter than yours to the sun.
Am I in front of you?
In front as in front; 2M, or 3Meters maybe. You can see where I'm going.
Heat evaporates stuff. That's why the surface of the sun is a no no.

Black holes are very hot on the outside:

Quote:Just outside the hole, however, the material being pulled into the hole's gravity well is accelerated to near the speed of light. The molecules of the material collide with such vigour that it is heated up to a temperature of hundreds of millions of degrees. When astronomers study black holes, this is the material that they see

An interesting scary verse from the Quran says about hell:

Quote:Sura 11, Page 233:
( 106 )   As for those who were [destined to be] wretched, they will be in the Fire. For them therein is [violent] exhaling and inhaling.
( 107 )   [They will be] abiding therein as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except what your Lord should will. Indeed, your Lord is an effecter of what He intends.

So yes; in this life we'll evaporate -because of heat- if we met a black hole. 

Quote:Cyberman Wrote:


Besides which, who says that "God" has such a dangerously destructive nature anyway, and how do they know it? Why should it be intrinsically beyond examination, simply to rationalise away why it never reveals itself in person?

His nature is not destructive. Observing the design he made tells that.
Life is full of mercy, joy, sadness and destruction. He made all of these; and created the patterns we use to decide our destiny. He taught us math; but we should never mess with the scale. 
His nature is not destructive; but many humans abused destruction; abused the scale.

Quote:Cyberman Wrote:

Lastly, for the moment, many if not all theists claim some sort of communication and/or interaction with their pet god, which they clearly survive. Short of a full manifestation, why can't we have that? Why must the only evidence we ever have be some combination of third-hand personal testimony, dusty mythology and deliberate falsehoods about scientific understanding of the real world?

Actually; all those testimonies, books and prophets are for us: to understand better. That's all.
People tend to mix messages with their own personal dreams to produce the mixtures we see today; that work in tranquilizing nations and turn warlords and mob leaders into magical, pure beings.

How many versions of Christianity are there?
How many versions of Islam are there?

How many and how many; it tells a lot about people playing with religion; people who follow the right path; people who decide to stand neutral; and people who abuse the scale after knowing the truth.