(July 25, 2017 at 9:28 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I think of hell as more of a logical fate of certain events; just like death. God doesn't enjoy torture, but the serial killer's only reasonable fate is a place like hell; imagine a pedophile serial killer who rapes children then eat them

With all due respect, and out of curiosity, is it not logical to focus more on rehabilitation than on torture?

(July 25, 2017 at 7:16 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(July 25, 2017 at 3:18 pm)Astreja Wrote: *hug* You're not going to hell, GoneGuy.  Trust that a truly good god would never put anyone through something like that, and that it's just a myth that was invented to scare people into the pews and loot their wallets.

Some people do deserve hell. They did some nasty, nasty things. Unspeakable harm to many humans.
Your eyes weren't scratched yet; in other words you didn't see.

I think I see a little further down the road than you think, Atlas.

Nobody deserves hell.  No exceptions.  Not even the worst of the worst in the history of humanity.  Eternal punishment for finite crimes is infinitely unjust, because the punishment is infinitely more than the crime.

Goneguy, you are one sick sock and I hope you get exposed.

GC

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(July 26, 2017 at 12:58 am)Astreja Wrote:

(July 25, 2017 at 7:16 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Some people do deserve hell. They did some nasty, nasty things. Unspeakable harm to many humans.
Your eyes weren't scratched yet; in other words you didn't see.

I think I see a little further down the road than you think, Atlas.

Nobody deserves hell.  No exceptions.  Not even the worst of the worst in the history of humanity.  Eternal punishment for finite crimes is infinitely unjust, because the punishment is infinitely more than the crime.

 The sin is against an infinite being (God) and a sin unforgiven is infinite, so therefore the punishment is infinite.

GC

(July 26, 2017 at 1:25 am)Godscreated Wrote: Goneguy, you are one sick sock and I hope you get exposed.

GC

Don't get mad GC. That's one of your peoples!

Quote:Imagine if there was no reward after school, or no paycheck in your work.

I'd quit.   Which is what I did with fucking religion.

(July 25, 2017 at 8:01 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 25, 2017 at 7:16 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Some people do deserve hell. They did some nasty, nasty things. Unspeakable harm to many humans.
Your eyes weren't scratched yet; in other words you didn't see.

Forgiveness and penalty are both used to benefit the system that uses them. Using both can be pictured as a sultan carrying a sword in the right hand, and a sack of golden coins in the left. With a belly dancer shaking her heart out for wanting the coins; and dodging the sword swings.

God's forgiveness and reward were hijacked by sultans. Christian salvation is nothing but a church-pushed guarantee that the dance shall continue without extra swings.
But even that hijack is an illusion.

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 Yep you sound just like a Christian with the revenge bullshit. 

"Hell" isn't even a concept owned by Islam, Christianity or Jews. Polytheism and even Asian religions far older have their ideas of reward punishment in the afterlife.  But many of them simply don't call it heaven or hell. 

"Hell" is not a corrective action as an idea in the religions of Abraham. In the real secular west outside the death penalty, which most western nations besides America don't have, in these countries we have due process, and when we do put people in prison we have limits to the amount of time based on the crime. And in many cases when someone is put in prison they can make use of their time learning a skill or getting an education, so when they do get out they have the opportunity to become productive.

"Hell" is not about teaching a lesson to the accused, hell is simply an act of revenge by the God character. It serves no purpose as a corrective measure. It is simply based on the egotism and narcissism of the God character for not kissing his ass.

But to be fair, the re-incarnation tropes of Hinduism and Buddhism, which say if you do good in this life you will be more well off in the next, but if you do bad, you will become a lower life form in the next. That too is simply another bullshit superstition gap answer that is used by power in the family, temple or even in politics to create social order and is used to scare people into behaving.

Real morality is doing the right thing without being bribed or threatened. The good thing about evolution is that we have always had that ability in us. We don't always live up to it as individuals, but it is part of evolution regardless.

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Well said Brian.

It seems you not only havent had your eyes scratched but you are apparently wearing goggles, AtlasS, if you don't look around this world and see what an abbhorent sadistic EVIL existence this would be if there indeed was a "god" who made it this way, planned it this way, and then throws us in hell for eternity for not playing his torment game. The god of "Justice" that you believe in is no more moral than the bad guy on that movie Saw, where he sets people up in a locked building set up with torment devices that force them to make extreme existential choices..and if they fail they die not directly by his hand, but their own. 

Life IS HELL for the majority of us humans. And yet you still have the ability to blame the victims. That's what you're doing, you're victim blaming. Some of us have no choice. Thieves steal to eat and live, or sometimes just for fun. That doesn't make chopping their hands off any acceptable form of recompense. Especially to the person who can't even feed themselves and had no choice but to fight to live! Do you.. even know what that's like? Do you not see the suffering of mankind and that there is no actual free will in this life but rather a status you were born to of varying degrees of hell on earth?
And ontop of that, then you want to throw us all in ETERNAL HELL for being born to a shitfest fucked up world of garbage just because we don't believe with zero proof that we will be delivered from this hell by your savior and therefore we deserve eternal torment??

Imagine the most precious person in your life, being tortured, endlessly, for eternity. We are all brothers and sisters and I cannot fathom such a fate for you or anyone. No matter the evil they've done, I'd rather the evil doers not be punished if it means saving the majority of humans just trying to LIVE.

Quote:Humans are interest-oriented beings.
Let's be honest; we eat to feel full and to taste. We breath to survive; we excel in love to be loved back, that's why prisons make us go insane; hunger make us die.

Imagine if there was no reward after school, or no paycheck in your work.
Reward make us move, penalty make us cease.

I think of hell as more of a logical fate of certain events; just like death. God doesn't enjoy torture, but the serial killer's only reasonable fate is a place like hell; imagine a pedophile serial killer who rapes children then eat them

If there were no punishment of hell looming over your head, nor retribution from your fellow believers, would you then feel free to murder someone for their wealth or rape someone you want?? There are people like that. And then there are people like me, who doesn't need hell to know that doing those things is inherently wrong .

I imagine someone like your hypothetical worst of the worst person (there are far worse people on this earth btw) became that way for a reason. We aren't just born rapist pedophile cannibals, now are we? Most likely-- and this is just postulation on my part from watching too many NumBers episodes--is that the "unsub" individual was born into truly horrific conditions of physical abuse and neglect, was raped as a kid probably by a close relative, never had a chance at real life, and re-lives his tormentuous childhood then "releases" his victims from their perceived torment in his eyes due to his life experiences, and his own anger at having had survived childhood to adulthood to be the tormented being he has become. Would you say it's fair if god (any god) threw that child rapist cannibal into hell straight out as a baby, already knowing that he'd end up a wretched being from the start because of the circumstances of his life?

(July 25, 2017 at 11:47 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(July 25, 2017 at 11:36 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: Or mine. It's only a little blackened and tattered.

See, mine is still gleaming white, pure and clean, and still has that "new soul" smell.

That's because it's still in the original box.

I was told they're worth more in their original packaging.

I heard someone got a million dollars for his on ebay once..
Smart cat, that.

(July 26, 2017 at 1:42 am)Thena323 Wrote:

(July 26, 2017 at 1:25 am)Godscreated Wrote: Goneguy, you are one sick sock and I hope you get exposed.

GC

Don't get mad GC. That's one of your peoples!

 I seriously doubt it, if this person ever knew God he would not have made all the mistakes he did. I think he's a sock and I hope someone catches him at it. Besides I'm not mad what good would that do me no matter who he is. Actually if he were to be a Christian I just might get a bit upset with him for such a poor expression of what the Bible says. That is definitely no way for a Christian to act. 

GC

(July 25, 2017 at 8:05 pm)Nymphadora Wrote: 3 - ~ you aren't some sort of a shitposter who drops a giant turd of a thread then leaves.

Please leave our friend CL out of this!

(July 25, 2017 at 9:24 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Since you no longer have a soul you should consider becoming a politician.  None of them have souls so you will have a lot of company.

Uggggg, that simply is not true. In the west all parties bitch about government, but what other alternative is there? You either have theocracy like Iran or Saudi Arabia, which also have governments, Or you have fascist 1 party states like China or 1 party states AND family rule like Cuba and the Castro family or North Korea and the Kim family. No government is just as bad like Somalia which is basically ruled by rich gangs.

Our species evolved to be social and power structures will always form when a void is created by conflict. No system is perfect and there will always be greedy people who seek power, but to claim that every politician is evil is simply bullshit. In the west we have, WHEN it is used and when citizens care to get involved, we have concepts of checks on power and the idea of anti monopoly so that no aspect of society, public, private, class, religious or political can gain a lopsided monopoly. 

If you are going to complain about the current state of politics, blame the billionaire class and their global corporatism pumping money into politics to sell the bullshit idea of austerity. But don't claim there are no politicians at all that are not trying to fight that.

I do want government. I want police, libraries and public schools. I want regulations that protect water and food and speed limits too. The only way those things happen is through government. So the only argument really, isn't that all politicians are bad, but what long term policies are good or bad.

Elon Musk made a good point about strict industry regulations.
Can you over regulate airline maintenance / safety?

Anyone comfortable cutting any corners whatsoever?