(August 6, 2017 at 6:51 am)pabsta Wrote:  
There are plenty of eyewitness testimonials that were given from people who were miles away from the incident who attest to seeing it from afar. If you want me to post some of those testimonials I can.

But what of all the other countries in the world? Some people were miles away and saw it that could still be a local effect but there were no visions of the sun skipity hopping from Britain or France or in fact anywhere other than the vicinity of Fatima so IT DID NOT HAPPEN the sun did not move in that way. And the sun moving like that would have had far reaching effects for the solar system.

I thought it only took 1 eyewitness for a court conviction, but now you're telling us it's 3? For such an expert in the field, you sure seem to be moving that particular goalpost. Maybe you don't know shit about how jury trials work? I'll have to ask my brother... he's an actual attorney.

(August 6, 2017 at 6:51 am)pabsta Wrote:

(August 5, 2017 at 10:14 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Where the two conflict, physical evidence - or lack thereof - eats eyewitnesses and blows them out in bubbles.

 
First of all, not all events in this world leave behind physical evidence. If I shined a bright light in your face yesterday, there is no physical evidence of it today.

But we're not talking about having a light shone in my face, are we? You're seriously proposing a star whizzing around off its axis. Whereas the counter-proposal is somewhere between delusion and hoax. Given the known propensity for people to lie, exaggerate and/or simply need to believe, multiplied by the also-known desperation for the church - especially the Catholic church - for a good money-spinning headline grabber in order to appear relevant, and then balanced against the sheer impossibility of the story as related... Well, which is more plausible?

(August 6, 2017 at 8:27 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: But what of all the other countries in the world? Some people were miles away and saw it that could still be a local effect but there were no visions of the sun skipity hopping from Britain or France or in fact anywhere other than the vicinity of Fatima so IT DID NOT HAPPEN the sun did not move in that way. And the sun moving like that would have had far reaching effects for the solar system.

^^ This, in spades.

You lost me at 3 young children. You know the kind of shit I would say when I was little, especially if I thought it would make my parents happy with me? I had imaginary dogs with their own stories, who lived and died, and once gave such an impassioned speech to the church congregation after their "deaths" that some people actually believed they were real, and prayed for them. If three children think they'll get attention by saying they were visited by an angel with a message, they'd jump on that instantly.

Oh, and prophecy number 2:

OP is going to deny that reality is real, just to make his story true.

I did decide to skim a bit. The story about the sun moving across the sky? Of course it's deniable. That would have been seen by every scientist on the planet, right before everyone died because Earth's orbit would have been dramatically changed. Hell if the sun seems like it's jumping all over the place, what that really means is the earth is doing it? And that incident alone would probably destroy all life. We're all standing on a spinning orb, meaning everything is currently traveling at very high speeds. You think it's jarring to hit the brakes on a vehicle going 80 mph? That's nothing compared to if the earth stopped spinning for even a second or two.

Also, the wet clothes suddenly drying part... ever been in Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho in the summer?  It gets hot (easily above 90F in some places), but it's also dry.  It doesn't take long for wet clothes to dry, even if they're soaked.

I don't know what Fatima's weather is usually like, but even here in muggy NH we get hot but dry days in late summer/early autumn.  In fact, early-to-mid October is when our 'Indian Summer' (a stretch (4-7) of warm/hot days following the first frost of the year) occurs.

Finally, there's a meteorological phenomenon known as a 'sun dog' (parhelion, which Last Poet referred to... see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog) that very much aligns with the story.

Well I like Jesus so I'm not an atheist, but I'd need to know more about the incident, namely-
1- How many times did the kids meet the entity, or were they in jail?
2- Did the entity just tell them about the forthcoming miracle, or did it also tell them lots of other things like "secrets" etc?

What really amazes me about theists, especially Christians, isn't just their stubborn belief that eyewitness testimony is somehow bulletproof, but that it lends truth to the claim they're making. Millions of people have seen Criss Angel perform magic. You can't get many more witnesses than that. But no rational person thinks he's performing miracles. We know that, despite outward appearances, there's a mundane explanation (or a series of them) for what he does. There's no reason to think Fatima is any different.