You know, the sad thing is I actually think the people protesting the removal of the statue of Robert E. Lee at least had a point, if only because Lee was more or less the anti-villain of the Comfederacy, someone who personally did not seem to approve of slavery or secession, but only did so because he loved Virginia too much to draw arms against her (even though it turned out that the legislature voted against it, and they decided "to hell with it" and seceded anyway).

Of course, this doesn't even come close to justifying the horrible shit that's actually happened. A statue of the token good teammate of the Confederacy is not worth all this horseshit. But, hey, at least we know what memorial to replace General Lee with.

This entire situation in Virginia, which started because of a city's decision to remove Confederate monuments, is a turning point for me. I'm a Southerner with A LOT of Confederate ancestors. Actually, all my ancestors are Southern, no Northern branch at all. And I've often raised my voice in defense of the Confederate side of the debate as too many people today have reduced the American Civil War into a comic book with super heroes on one side and super villains on the other. Humans and their actions rarely match those characteristics.

However, after this, all I can do is throw my hands in the air and exclaim, "This is why we can't have nice things!"

I reject all white supremacist groups, I reject... well Trump all together, but also his pathetic response to what the white supremacists have done. At this point, I'm of the opinion that not only should Confederate monuments start coming down, but maybe even the National Guard should start coming out to do it. One by one. And that hurts for me to say. But these assholes have now given us a required reason to do so. One that I can't, in good conscience, argue against.

(August 13, 2017 at 9:03 am)Mermaid Wrote:

(August 12, 2017 at 11:51 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Pfft. This is nobody's fault. These are supremacists having a hissy-fit; this is democracy in action.

Now, if it were a peaceful march on the mall in DC, it would of course be a threat to the Republic.

Go figure.

On the contrary, It is EVERYBODY'S fault. 

These people are NOT the fringe. These people live and work among us everywhere, always have. This is what we need to face.

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Quote:He condemned them in strong terms, much stronger than he condemned those riots by the far left anarchists at Berkeley and other campuses and the BLM protestors encouraging cop killing. Now you fuckers are upset that Trump added in his statement that hatred needs to stop on all sides. You don't agree with that? Or do all you numb nuts fuckers hate Trump so much that no matter what he says or does it's not going to be good for you.

supremacists are a hate group. The BLM movement is a "please don't kill me for being black" group. 

My outrage at Trump's failure to denounce the hate has nothing to do with HIM. This is a fundamental wrong. This is not patriotism.

He denounced the hate! He denounced it on all sides. You weren't paying attention to his statement?

Yes. White Supremacists, far left anarchists, bamn, antifa, are all hate groups. If BLM is such a peaceful, "please don't shoot me for being black", movement, then why do they create an atmosphere of cop killing when they chant, "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon"?

He didn't, he wheedled and pulled some whataboutist bullshit that appeals to the usual suspects - yourself included.  The proper response to this was nothing short of "Fuck a bunch of nazis, this is murica!" not - "Hey guys, everyone should calm down and stop being mean to each other."  

Here's a question, since you're in a questioning mood.  If you aren't a white supremacist, why do you consistently read from their script?

(August 13, 2017 at 12:34 am)Rahul Wrote:

(August 12, 2017 at 11:28 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Long time, no see.  How's life treating you?

Hi Whateverist.  Life is being very kind to me.  Much more so than i deserve.  How have you been?

Pretty happy.  Just started my first pilates class so muscles I hadn't heard from in ages are registering their complaints today.  But I'm looking forward to getting more fit.

(August 13, 2017 at 9:39 am)A Theist Wrote:

(August 13, 2017 at 9:03 am)Mermaid Wrote: On the contrary, It is EVERYBODY'S fault. 

These people are NOT the fringe. These people live and work among us everywhere, always have. This is what we need to face.

---

supremacists are a hate group. The BLM movement is a "please don't kill me for being black" group. 

My outrage at Trump's failure to denounce the hate has nothing to do with HIM. This is a fundamental wrong. This is not patriotism.

He denounced the hate! He denounced it on all sides. You weren't paying attention to his statement?

Yes. White Supremacists, far left anarchists, bamn, antifa, are all hate groups. If BLM is such a peaceful, "please don't shoot me for being black", movement, then why do they create an atmosphere of cop killing when they chant, "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon"?

Bullshit, that was a sick way of saying "Reverse racism". ONLY ONE FUCKING SIDE is responsible, the GOP AND TRUMP.

Oh cmon, what do you expect...it was A Theist who, not but a few months back, couldn't contain his joy at a proposed law stating that it was okay to run over a protester..and, lo and behold, just such a thing materializes.

I'll never understand why the fuck people are 'proud' of their confederate ancestors. "My great great great grandfather died fighting in a war to preserve slavery! And he fought on the side that wanted to preserve slavery! So damn proud of him!"

Wonder how many Germans are going "Man! I'm proud of my grandfather! He fought in the war with the Nazi's. The Nazi's weren't just about exterminating the Jews!"

(August 13, 2017 at 10:40 am)Divinity Wrote: I'll never understand why the fuck people are 'proud' of their confederate ancestors.  "My great great great grandfather died fighting in a war to preserve slavery!  And he fought on the side that wanted to preserve slavery!  So damn proud of him!"

The majority of Confederate soldiers did not own slaves nor did they come from a family that owned slaves.  Most of them fought because their home state was invaded.  Studies of surviving Confederate soldier diaries find slavery rarely mentioned.  Hatred toward invading "Yankees" was much more common.

This is part of the turning the Civil War into a comic book thing I was talking about.  Some did fight for slavery, but most did not.

It's possible to be proud of what a person did and got right while simultaneously acknowledging what they did and got wrong. The trouble only crops up when a person, for whatever reason™ is incapable of adequately identifying the latter. All of us have ancestors that were on the wrong side of history in some x. That much was, before the fact, an inevitability, and after the fact, an unfortunate consequence of that inevitability.