(August 13, 2017 at 12:05 pm)A Theist Wrote: One of my Great Grandfathers, four generations back, was a Corporal in the Union Army manning artillery under General William Tecumseh Sherman. He was part of Sherman's march into the South burning and laying waste to everything they came across. The focus of Sherman's march was not only to destroy the Southern army's supply lines, but also to compromise the will of Southerners to continue fighting. I don't think Lee liked the idea of succession but fought for the South in defense of his home state, Virginia.

If Lee's statue and other Confederate monuments would have remained in place where they were do you think the White Supremacists would have come to riot in Charlottesville?

At this point I don't believe that appeasement is the answer to respond to all the hatred coming from white supremacy groups.  This is something we have to confront as a nation.  We can't ignore it any longer.

The problem is not that some locals are taking down Confederate monuments in their own town.  It's that some people are willing to kill to keep them up.

(August 13, 2017 at 9:39 am)A Theist Wrote:

(August 13, 2017 at 9:03 am)Mermaid Wrote: On the contrary, It is EVERYBODY'S fault. 

These people are NOT the fringe. These people live and work among us everywhere, always have. This is what we need to face.

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supremacists are a hate group. The BLM movement is a "please don't kill me for being black" group. 

My outrage at Trump's failure to denounce the hate has nothing to do with HIM. This is a fundamental wrong. This is not patriotism.

He denounced the hate! He denounced it on all sides. You weren't paying attention to his statement?

Yes. White Supremacists, far left anarchists, bamn, antifa, are all hate groups. If BLM is such a peaceful, "please don't shoot me for being black", movement, then why do they create an atmosphere of cop killing when they chant, "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon"?

I did not say BLM is a peaceful movement. I made a comment on the origin and reason for being for these groups. 
And yes, I paid careful attention to the president. He did NOT denounce the white supremacists.

And to be clear, I do not condone violence for ANY reason, lest this be misconstrued.

(August 13, 2017 at 12:28 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: But those situations are not this situation, the violence in those protests has been called out and Trump has had no problem calling out "Black Lives Matter". The difference in this situation is he had the opportunity to call out known hate groups and condemn their actions , instead he he tried to make it seem like it was everybody was being equally violent, which isn't the case.

Also Black Lives Matter is not a hate group, the movement isn't about violence, supremacy, and segregation, it is about addressing policy issues that impact the black community. Have there been some violent protesters, yes and they are wrong, but trying to equate the motivations of Black Lives Matter and a group like the KKK is just idiotic.

BLM has no organized leadership, no centralized headquarters, and no established manifesto. So how do you know what BLM is or isn't? What we know of BLM are videos of their protests chanting "Pigs in a blanket! Fry'em like bacon!" and "What do we want? Dead Cops!" As far as I can see, what has been witnessed by news videos, is that BLM is a hate movement that advocates violence against police officers....and the movement should be condemned for that.

(August 13, 2017 at 12:59 pm)A Theist Wrote: BLM has no organized leadership, no centralized headquarters, and no established manifesto. So how do you know what BLM is or isn't? What we know of BLM are videos of their protests chanting "Pigs in a blanket! Fry'em like bacon!" and "What do we want? Dead Cops!" As far as I can see, what has been witnessed by news videos, is that BLM is a hate movement that advocates violence against police officers....and the movement should be condemned for that.

I would consider myself a strong supporter of the BLM movement. It is a large group of people who are angry and who are sick and fucking tired of being targeted. It is not a hate movement. If you see it that way, you are not understanding why they exist in the first place. Anyone who advocates violence against the police or anyone else is wrong.

Listen to their message.

(August 13, 2017 at 12:05 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(August 13, 2017 at 11:02 am)Aegon Wrote: Okay. Fill me in. Which side showed up with shields, bats, helmets, and a private militia with assault rifles? Which side rammed a car into the other side at almost 40 mph, killing 1 and injuring 19?

Not calling out the clearly incendiary side was pathetic. Acting like both sides were equally to blame. Disgusting.

These guys?






BLM, "Dead Cops"




You have the far left antifa and bamn radicals rioting and committing arson, assault, destroying public and private property and the BLM protestors calling for dead cops. White Nationalists rioting and committing murder, yes, I think the president was justified calling out the hatred on all sides.

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A quick check of the web shows you're basically parroting what the neo Nazis are saying about Trump's comments yesterday.

-Teresa

(August 13, 2017 at 12:59 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(August 13, 2017 at 12:28 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: But those situations are not this situation, the violence in those protests has been called out and Trump has had no problem calling out "Black Lives Matter". The difference in this situation is he had the opportunity to call out known hate groups and condemn their actions , instead he he tried to make it seem like it was everybody was being equally violent, which isn't the case.

Also Black Lives Matter is not a hate group, the movement isn't about violence, supremacy, and segregation, it is about addressing policy issues that impact the black community. Have there been some violent protesters, yes and they are wrong, but trying to equate the motivations of Black Lives Matter and a group like the KKK is just idiotic.

BLM has no organized leadership, no centralized headquarters, and no established manifesto. So how do you know what BLM is or isn't? What we know of BLM are videos of their protests chanting "Pigs in a blanket! Fry'em like bacon!" and "What do we want? Dead Cops!" As far as I can see, what has been witnessed by news videos, is that BLM is a hate movement that advocates violence against police officers....and the movement should be condemned for that.

Go to their website blacklivesmatter.com and you can read what the movement is about and yes they do have a manifesto and nowhere in it does it say "dead police".

(August 13, 2017 at 10:53 am)Rahul Wrote: The majority of Confederate soldiers did not own slaves nor did they come from a family that owned slaves.  Most of them fought because their home state was invaded.  Studies of surviving Confederate soldier diaries find slavery rarely mentioned.  Hatred toward invading "Yankees" was much more common.

This is part of the turning the Civil War into a comic book thing I was talking about.  Some did fight for slavery, but most did not.

So you're honestly saying that most of those who fought for the south were absolutely against slavery, but as much as they were against slavery, they were even more against those no good rotten god damned assholes from the North who had the nerve to come to their state in an effort to end the slavery they were actually against in the first place. Is that what you're saying? Because that sure sounds like that's what you're saying.

"We need to keep the statues up! To appease the confederates! Because fuck the black people who feel like they don't belong because their state and country has monuments to people who fought to keep them enslaved. People who were traitors to the country!"

(August 13, 2017 at 1:08 pm)johan Wrote: So you're honestly saying that most of those who fought for the south were absolutely against slavery, but as much as they were against slavery, they were even more against those no good rotten god damned assholes from the North who had the nerve to come to their state in an effort to end the slavery they were actually against in the first place. Is that what you're saying? Because that sure sounds like that's what you're saying.

No.  I doubt very many Confederate soldiers were against slavery at all.  I'm saying, and their own diaries state, that slavery isn't the reason very many of them fought against the invading Union soldiers.  Most Union soldiers didn't fight to abolish slavery either.  They fought to preserve the Union.  Specifically to keep the Southern states as part of the Union. 

More and more Union soldiers added abolishing slavery as one of their personal reasons the longer they fought in the war though.

(August 13, 2017 at 12:05 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(August 13, 2017 at 11:02 am)Aegon Wrote: Okay. Fill me in. Which side showed up with shields, bats, helmets, and a private militia with assault rifles? Which side rammed a car into the other side at almost 40 mph, killing 1 and injuring 19?

Not calling out the clearly incendiary side was pathetic. Acting like both sides were equally to blame. Disgusting.

These guys?






BLM, "Dead Cops"




You have the far left antifa and bamn radicals rioting and committing arson, assault, destroying public and private property and the BLM protestors calling for dead cops. White Nationalists rioting and committing murder, yes, I think the president was justified calling out the hatred on all sides.

Did those things happen yesterday? The presidents statement was clearly in response to what happened the other day, where the white nationalists were to blame. He's had no problem calling out leftists and BLM in the past. Why can't he call out 2017 Neo-Nazis?Because those people all support him? Because Steve Bannon is in his ear? Both?

I'd also like to point out that the white supremacist figures are saying what you're saying.