(August 14, 2017 at 1:33 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote:

(August 14, 2017 at 10:19 am)Brian37 Wrote: We know you are not here to convert us.

So I did convince you about something!

Brian37 Wrote:You simply don't like it because we are not treating your pet deity claim as any more special than anyone else with a different pet deity.

What God claim did I even make that you are talking about?

What does your "religious views" claim next to your profile? Hindu? Buddhist? Muslim? 

Nope sorry, it says Christian and you volunteered that info in your profile when you signed up. To expect me to ignore that now is fucking absurd.

No different when cops are conducting interviews and nobody is under arrest yet and you volunteer information the cops did not ask for. How is it my fault you claim to be Christian. So you are lying and you don't believe that the God of Jesus is real? 

Now again, I actually believe you when you say you are not trying to convince anyone your God exists. Even if you were you still are not doing a good job of it. Nope, you really are here to convince yourself, not us. You are merely trying to convince yourself and give yourself excuses to cling to bad claims.

(August 14, 2017 at 1:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: What does your "religious views" claim next to your profile? Hindu? Buddhist? Muslim? 

Nope sorry, it says Christian and you volunteered that info in your profile when you signed up. To expect me to ignore that now is fucking absurd.

No different when cops are conducting interviews and nobody is under arrest yet and you volunteer information the cops did not ask for. How is it my fault you claim to be Christian. So you are lying and you don't believe that the God of Jesus is real?

Sorry, Brian. Putting Christian as my "religious view" is only a claim to me and what I believe. It is not making any positive claim about God such that "prove it" would be a valid request. If you think otherwise, maybe you should "prove" you are an atheist. If you cannot see the ridiculousness of such a request, I cannot help you.

(August 14, 2017 at 2:32 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote:

(August 14, 2017 at 1:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: What does your "religious views" claim next to your profile? Hindu? Buddhist? Muslim? 

Nope sorry, it says Christian and you volunteered that info in your profile when you signed up. To expect me to ignore that now is fucking absurd.

No different when cops are conducting interviews and nobody is under arrest yet and you volunteer information the cops did not ask for. How is it my fault you claim to be Christian. So you are lying and you don't believe that the God of Jesus is real?

Sorry, Brian. Putting Christian as my "religious view" is only a claim to me and what I believe. It is not making any positive claim about God such that "prove it" would be a valid request. If you think otherwise, maybe you should "prove" you are an atheist. If you cannot see the ridiculousness of such a request, I cannot help you.

No sorry, again, why should I ignore that? 

Nobody is talking about your legal right to make that claim. I am simply not fooled when you claim you have no agenda. 

You, "I am a Christian". You admit that. 

FINE, but you are still here in this thread making claims about non-life going to life.

FINE AGAIN.....

So where do you think that "non life to life" ends up pointing to?

Be careful in your response. 

What God do you think answers why we are here? 

Now don't be a coward and now try to avoid your position.

You DO  think your God is the cause of all this otherwise why hold "religious views" as "Christian" as your position?

WHAT GOD do you think started all this?

Brian37 Wrote:No sorry, again, why should I ignore that? 

Nobody is talking about your legal right to make that claim. I am simply not fooled when you claim you have no agenda. 

You, "I am a Christian". You admit that. 

FINE, but you are still here in this thread making claims about non-life going to life.

FINE AGAIN.....

So where do you think that "non life to life" ends up pointing to?

Be careful in your response. 

What God do you think answers why we are here? 

Now don't be a coward and now try to avoid your position.

You DO  think your God is the cause of all this otherwise why hold "religious views" as "Christian" as your position?

WHAT GOD do you think started all this?

Sigh!

Let's recap Brian.

Yes, my very first post did include the following: "Perhaps no atheists wanted to push back as doing so might highlight the lack of any known naturalistic mechanism for forming life from non-life????"  See post #9.

Later, after some discussion with Mr. Agenda, I saw the error of my ways in the claim that I made and withdrew the claim. See post #171.

If I made any other claims that you want me to address, please point them out.

The rest of any conversation we were having was a result of your claim in post #168 that said: "Close proximity of individual atoms that by themselves are not a living thing, but because they bond like magnets exchanging electrons, that makes it very easy to go from non life to life."

I asked some pointed questions about your claim that you could not answer (or ignored) and you did not provide any proof of your claim that it is very easy to go from non life to life.

So unless you can show me another claim that I made that I need to respond to, I will consider the ball still in your court to provide proof of your claim.

Please note, Brian, at least a couple of atheists here agreed with me that your claim above was silly and/or unproven. (If you want, I could provide the post numbers for those also.) Consequently, the lack of proof of your claim clearly does not necessarily lead to:  therefore, no God. If you want to jump there that is up to you.

In your last couple of questions, you seem to be trying to goad me into making some conclusion, just so you can say "see you were trying to prove God exists". Nice try, but no cigar. Whatever conclusions you draw are on you.

Thing is, it does make it very easy, particularly in that the alternative -no organic chemistry- makes life like ours -impossible-.  There's a fairly large disparity between "impossible" and "currently existent".  You wouldn;t consider that a measure of ease?

Similarly, that organic chemistry produced life either by sheer happenstance or because it was some inevitable combination seems, again, to be a measure of ease. 

As yet another indicator of the ease with which organic chemistry produces life, it did so (and continues to do so) even in the face of hostile environmental pressures.

I already asked, but I'll ask again...what metrics are you using, what metrics are you hoping to see this statement addressed in reference to?

(August 14, 2017 at 4:20 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Thing is, it does make it very easy, particularly in that the alternative -no organic chemistry- makes life like ours -impossible-.  There's a fairly large disparity between "impossible" and "currently existent".  You wouldn;t consider that a measure of ease?  

I already asked, but I'll ask again...what metrics are you using, what metrics are you hoping to see this statement addressed in reference to?

Maybe your are correct and our different positions have to do with the use of the word "easy".

As for me, reading the word in the context in which Brian was using it, I assumed it was being used similarly to our everyday usage in English.

Consequently, to say something is "easy" to do or "it happens easily", then at least somebody should be able to do it or show that it happens such that we can observe it (even that gives way more leeway than normal usage of the word. For example, I think most, if not all, would consider the statement "It is easy for humans to run 100m in 9.58 seconds." as false based on everyday usage of "easy" in English. Even though one person has done it, it wasn't "easy" as he had to train very hard to do it and cannot repeat it regularly.) So if scientists have not been able to produce life from non life via naturalistic mechanisms in the lab or show that it happens such that we can observe it, how can it be construed as being "easy"?

That is where I am coming from.

You're not looking for a measure of how difficult or easy something is.  You're asking whether or not human beings are capable of doing it.  Photosynthesis is easy for a plant, and yet we're incapable.

In any case.  Our bodies convert organic -and- inorganic chemistry into living cells with breazy regularity. That life comes from non-life is both currently demonstrable and a consequence of knowing that there was once no life on earth - and then there was. That this life which arose was based on chemicals present and common and to this very day still is. Regardless of whether or not a person believes it happened naturally or supernaturally...life came from non life. Your god supposedly played in the dirt and spoke some magic words. That sounds pretty easy, too.

(I;m assuming you don;t worship an alien).

(August 14, 2017 at 4:07 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote:

Brian37 Wrote:No sorry, again, why should I ignore that? 

Nobody is talking about your legal right to make that claim. I am simply not fooled when you claim you have no agenda. 

You, "I am a Christian". You admit that. 

FINE, but you are still here in this thread making claims about non-life going to life.

FINE AGAIN.....

So where do you think that "non life to life" ends up pointing to?

Be careful in your response. 

What God do you think answers why we are here? 

Now don't be a coward and now try to avoid your position.

You DO  think your God is the cause of all this otherwise why hold "religious views" as "Christian" as your position?

WHAT GOD do you think started all this?

Sigh!

Let's recap Brian.

Yes, my very first post did include the following: "Perhaps no atheists wanted to push back as doing so might highlight the lack of any known naturalistic mechanism for forming life from non-life????"  See post #9.

Later, after some discussion with Mr. Agenda, I saw the error of my ways in the claim that I made and withdrew the claim. See post #171.

If I made any other claims that you want me to address, please point them out.

The rest of any conversation we were having was a result of your claim in post #168 that said: "Close proximity of individual atoms that by themselves are not a living thing, but because they bond like magnets exchanging electrons, that makes it very easy to go from non life to life."

I asked some pointed questions about your claim that you could not answer (or ignored) and you did not provide any proof of your claim that it is very easy to go from non life to life.

So unless you can show me another claim that I made that I need to respond to, I will consider the ball still in your court to provide proof of your claim.

Please note, Brian, at least a couple of atheists here agreed with me that your claim above was silly and/or unproven. (If you want, I could provide the post numbers for those also.) Consequently, the lack of proof of your claim clearly does not necessarily lead to:  therefore, no God. If you want to jump there that is up to you.

In your last couple of questions, you seem to be trying to goad me into making some conclusion, just so you can say "see you were trying to prove God exists". Nice try, but no cigar. Whatever conclusions you draw are on you.

Yea lets recap shall we?

You, " I am not trying to argue my God."

Me, " Sure that is what you say. But even without posting it, you still believe your God did it."

Do you believe your God of the bible did all this or not? 

I will laugh in your face knowing that your "religious views" you claim to be a Christian. 

So unless you are lying to me, I am right to assume that is what you think as being the cause to all this.

NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION.....

DO YOU  BELIEVE THE  GOD OF THE  BIBLE STARTED ALL THIS? 

Yes or no will do.

(August 14, 2017 at 4:46 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You're not looking for a measure of how difficult or easy something is.  You're asking whether or not human beings are capable of doing it.  Photosynthesis is easy for a plant, and yet we're incapable.

In any case.  Our bodies convert organic -and- inorganic chemistry into living cells with breazy regularity.  That life comes from non-life is both currently demonstrable and a consequence of knowing that there was once no life on earth - and then there was.  That this life which arose was based on chemicals present and common and to this very day still is.  Regardless of whether or not a person believes it happened naturally or supernaturally...life came from non life.  Your god supposedly played in the dirt and spoke some magic words.  That sounds pretty easy, too.

(I;m assuming you don;t worship an alien).

Very good point. I was clearly not looking at it from that perspective. Thanks for the insight.

You still have not answered my question.

Is it your position that the God of the Bible is the cause of why non life went to life?