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Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
A god or God that doesn't leave evidence clearly does not want to leave evidence. If such a deity exists, I think we should respect its wishes and either not believe in it, or believe in it secure in the conviction that we don't require evidence to justify our belief because that's how strong our faith is.

It's trying to have it both ways that seems to cause problems.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 16, 2017 at 2:45 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: Interesting...but I still think you are missing my point....or maybe I am still missing something.

Let me ask this (I am trying really hard to understand your point of view). We live in a universe that we observe. You have come to the conclusion (at least I think), not God. Did you come to that as a presupposition or based on evidence or lack thereof?
Upon the combination of evidence and the lack thereof.  There is a vast pool of irrefutable evidence regarding what gods actually are (as in, even if gods were real in some other sense, they would still be x, y and z)....meanwhile, there is no evidence whatsoever that they are what believers propose them to be or to have done - and simultaneously the things that believers propose are explained by evidenced things other than gods as well as completely refuted by evidence of what was -not- done..ever, by a god or anything else.  

Once upon a time, I didn't have an opinion on whether or not there was a god or no god - I simply didn't believe in one. Your collective claims eradicated my agnosticism. Your gods do not exist, and your many claims have exhausted both my patience and my rational suspension of disbeleif with regards to "some other god, then" claims.

I'm a gnostic atheist. I don't mind telling you that your god, all gods, and the very notion of god.... is rank bullshit. Wink Additionally, I'm an ethical antitheist, which is to say that even if I were wrong, against all evidence, it wouldn't matter. I still couldn't be a follower of christ, for example. I refuse to kill the better man for my own transgressions. A more complete refutation of god claims could not be offered. Not only is there evidence against them, there is no evidence for them...and if they somehow managed to be true despite all of that - it wouldn't matter a single iota to me.

Quote:Shy Well...I would get rid of them, but my wife wants to keep them around for the grandchildren (4 so far). So...I guess you get to purchase a shiny new 3d printer.  I saw one at Sam's Club a while back. I think it was 800 or so and then, of course, you have to but the polymer too. Hopefully, they are cheaper now.
Tell your wife to be quiet while men are speaking, as god intended?  JK

Nah man, I don't want a cheap one, I have other uses for it - custom irrigation and valve assemblies. The ones I'm looking at run 10-12k minimum without support or ancillary tool mounts. I fuigure making a few million legos before I try something more critical would be a way to practice on the cheap, lol. I need something that can assemble pieces capable of withstanding upwards of 800psi and 100c at a minimum and can be chemically welded.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
Science may not be the answer to everything . But religion is the answer to nothing . Science it's works bitches

Religion is not a another way of knowing it's a way of remaining ignorant. And making mythic excuses to cling to dogma .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 16, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Upon the combination of evidence and the lack thereof.  There is a vast pool of irrefutable evidence regarding what gods actually are (as in, even if gods were real in some other sense, they would still be x, y and z)....meanwhile, there is no evidence whatsoever that they are what believers propose them to be or to have done - and simultaneously the things that believers propose are explained by evidenced things other than gods as well as completely refuted by evidence of what was -not- done..ever, by a god or anything else.  

Once upon a time, I didn't have an opinion on whether or not there was a god or no god - I simply didn't believe in one.  Your collective claims eradicated my agnosticism.  Your gods do not exist, and your many claims have exhausted both my patience and my rational suspension of disbeleif with regards to "some other god, then" claims.  

I'm a gnostic atheist.  I don't mind telling you that your god, all gods, and the very notion of god.... is rank bullshit.  Wink  Additionally, I'm an ethical antitheist, which is to say that even if I were wrong, against all evidence, it wouldn't matter.  I still couldn't be a follower of christ, for example.  I refuse to kill the better man for my own transgressions.  A more complete refutation of god claims could not be offered.  Not only is there evidence against them, there is no evidence for them...and if they somehow managed to be true despite all of that - it wouldn't matter a single iota to me. 

Fair enough. Is it fair to say then that in your worldview (i.e., not God) one's thoughts are merely chemical reactions going on in the brain?

Khemikal Wrote:Tell your wife to be quiet while men are speaking, as god intended?  JK

Nah man, I don't want a cheap one, I have other uses for it - custom irrigation and valve assemblies.  The ones I'm looking at run 10-12k minimum without support or ancillary tool mounts.  I fuigure making a few million legos before I try something more critical would be a way to practice on the cheap, lol.  I need something that can assemble pieces capable of withstanding upwards of 800psi and 100c at a minimum and can be chemically welded.

Wow! Sounds nice. Do they have the CAD drawings available for Legos? My dream machine would be a large CNC router for woodworking, making woodworking jigs, etc.

(And I did get a good chuckle from your first sentence in the last quote.)
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 16, 2017 at 4:16 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: Fair enough. Is it fair to say then that in your worldview (i.e., not God) one's thoughts are merely chemical reactions going on in the brain?
It's fair to say that this is what ones thoughts are in -any- worldview.  What is true does not stop being true just because fairies.  If there -are- fairies, then our thoughts are electro-chemical reactions going on in our brains ........and there are fairies.  

Quote:Wow! Sounds nice. Do they have the CAD drawings available for Legos? My dream machine would be a large CNC router for woodworking, making woodworking jigs, etc.

(And I did get a good chuckle from your first sentence in the last quote.)

They do......and dude, there's this guy that made a plywood 6 axis cnc for woodworking that is meant to have hardware store tools affixed, open source....google for it, shouldn;t be hard to find.  I want to build one. He had a pretty successful youtube channel making homebrew shop tools for the longest.

I appreciate that you can see the smile over the interwebs - I;ve been putting alot of winkies in recently, lol. I feel like it gets lost sometimes - that I'm a big drunk goof, not some sinister evilutionist.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 16, 2017 at 4:23 pm)Khemikal Wrote: It's fair to say that this is what ones thoughts are in -any- worldview. 

I get you. So our consciousness is merely the sum of those chemical reactions, i.e., there is no consciousness that is manifested in our body but could exist separately therefrom?

I wonder why so many chemical reactions want to fight/argue, etc., with other chemical reaction? I wonder why some chemical reactions think they know more than others?

Yep...I think there's more to it than that! (Don't take offense...it's just the chemicals talking.)Smile

Khemikal Wrote:They do......and dude, there's this guy that made a plywood 6 axis cnc for woodworking that is meant to have hardware store tools affixed, open source....google for it, shouldn;t be hard to find.  I want to build one.  He had a pretty successful youtube channel making homebrew shop tools for the longest.

I know there are a lot of instructions on building them out there. Unfortunately, my garage is a mess right now. I can barely get out to put garbage in the  trash. Tools everywhere and sometimes I have a hard to find what I am looking for. (I am in the process of installing quarter round in my foyer and kitchen.)

khemikal Wrote:I appreciate that you can see the smile over the interwebs - I;ve been putting alot of winkies in recently, lol. I feel like it gets lost sometimes - that I'm a big drunk goof, not some sinister evilutionist.

Shy
Reply
RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 16, 2017 at 4:16 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote:
(August 16, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Upon the combination of evidence and the lack thereof.  There is a vast pool of irrefutable evidence regarding what gods actually are (as in, even if gods were real in some other sense, they would still be x, y and z)....meanwhile, there is no evidence whatsoever that they are what believers propose them to be or to have done - and simultaneously the things that believers propose are explained by evidenced things other than gods as well as completely refuted by evidence of what was -not- done..ever, by a god or anything else.  

Once upon a time, I didn't have an opinion on whether or not there was a god or no god - I simply didn't believe in one.  Your collective claims eradicated my agnosticism.  Your gods do not exist, and your many claims have exhausted both my patience and my rational suspension of disbeleif with regards to "some other god, then" claims.  

I'm a gnostic atheist.  I don't mind telling you that your god, all gods, and the very notion of god.... is rank bullshit.  Wink  Additionally, I'm an ethical antitheist, which is to say that even if I were wrong, against all evidence, it wouldn't matter.  I still couldn't be a follower of christ, for example.  I refuse to kill the better man for my own transgressions.  A more complete refutation of god claims could not be offered.  Not only is there evidence against them, there is no evidence for them...and if they somehow managed to be true despite all of that - it wouldn't matter a single iota to me. 

Fair enough. Is it fair to say then that in your worldview (i.e., not God) one's thoughts are merely chemical reactions going on in the brain?

Khemikal Wrote:Tell your wife to be quiet while men are speaking, as god intended?  JK

Nah man, I don't want a cheap one, I have other uses for it - custom irrigation and valve assemblies.  The ones I'm looking at run 10-12k minimum without support or ancillary tool mounts.  I fuigure making a few million legos before I try something more critical would be a way to practice on the cheap, lol.  I need something that can assemble pieces capable of withstanding upwards of 800psi and 100c at a minimum and can be chemically welded.

Wow! Sounds nice. Do they have the CAD drawings available for Legos? My dream machine would be a large CNC router for woodworking, making woodworking jigs, etc.

(And I did get a good chuckle from your first sentence in the last quote.)

"atheist" merely means "off" on one claim. It is not a "worldview" it is not a "belief system" it is not a "political party" it is not a "economic view" and it is not a "religion".

When you ask an individual atheist what their position is on a topic, just ask, and skip the fucking bullshit word "worldview". We are not all the same and we don't always agree.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 16, 2017 at 5:08 pm)Brian37 Wrote: It is not a "worldview" it is not a "belief system" it is not a "political party" it is not a "economic view" and it is not a "religion".

When you ask an individual atheist what their position is on a topic, just ask, and skip the fucking bullshit word "worldview". We are not all the same and we don't always agree.

I was asking a specific person the question and he didn't have a problem with it. Why should you?
Reply
RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 16, 2017 at 5:04 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: I get you. So our consciousness is merely the sum of those chemical reactions, i.e., there is no consciousness that is manifested in our body but could exist separately therefrom?

I wonder why so many chemical reactions want to fight/argue, etc., with other chemical reaction? I wonder why some chemical reactions think they know more than others?

Yep...I think there's more to it than that! (Don't take offense...it's just the chemicals talking.)Smile
Whatever else exists in the universe that much is true.  I'm not particularly surprised that one group of chemical reactions is anathema to another - that much can be shown in much simpler interactions...but this is stretching the analogy for the benefit of simple beliefs in the first place...and you're not the kind of guy that would offer simple deepities as implied objections.......right?

Quote:I know there are a lot of instructions on building them out there. Unfortunately, my garage is a mess right now. I can barely get out to put garbage in the  trash. Tools everywhere and sometimes I have a hard to find what I am looking for. (I am in the process of installing quarter round in my foyer and kitchen.)
I feel ya. Buddy, I have to schlepp my cans backwards a quarter mile uphill just to get to the pickup. Keeps my lower body lust-worthy. Could bounce quarters off my shit. Wife's steady pervin. Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 16, 2017 at 5:20 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I feel ya.  Buddy, I have to schlepp my cans backwards a quarter mile uphill just to get to the pickup.  Keeps my lower body lust-worthy.  Could bounce quarters off my shit.  Wife's steady pervin.  Wink

ROFLOLYou sound like my brother in law...he used to talk about his "buns of steel".
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