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Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 15, 2017 at 11:30 am)rjh4 is back Wrote:
(August 15, 2017 at 10:05 am)Khemikal Wrote: What is it about abiogenesis that makes you object, even if/when whatever rationalization you offer doesn't pan out?  It's fair to assume that you haven't suddenly come to the opinion that life arose spontaneously in the primordial ooze just because your previous objections have been mooted, right?

Answer to question 2): Yes

Answer to question 1): Thinking about it...and I am seriously trying to answer your question...I guess I would have to conclude simply that my real objection is that it is not consistent with my presuppositions (hence the yes answer above and the reason why I think TAG is a more consistent position to take than an evidentiary argument for God as I said somewhere else in this thread). And based on this conversation, I certainly understand better how your position regarding abiogenesis would be consistent with your presuppositions and how my objections because of my presuppositions don't really affect your position on the matter.

The only difference between our "presuppositions" on this matter is that you posit a supernatural agent and I do not.  If you consider "goddidit" a valid presupposition, you hardly need to provide an argument here, or otherwise (ala TAG).  Nor, for that matter, is there any reason to object to anything that is ever proposed with regards to the origin of life - or ourselves.  Nor could any argument which presupposes a god then be validly leveraged to prove a god. In that important sense, it's not consistent -at all- to point to an argument for god, if god is a presupposition.

So, again, why object?  I think it happened in manner x...so do you, you just think god did that.  The abiogenesis proposition, itself - is agent/cause neutral.  It doesn't speak to your presupposition in the least - it simply doesn't require it to be true...and neither do you.  You think that it is, granted, but you accept that it need not be - unless you are..in fact, proposing that only god can bake the cake..even if someone or something else followed the same recipe.

That whereas god got reaction a - I would get reaction b, and some happenstance arrangement of the same elements and conditions would get reaction c or no reaction.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 15, 2017 at 6:54 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote:
(August 14, 2017 at 5:17 pm)Godscreated Wrote:  You really struggle with conversation that would be considered contributory and educated in this thread.

GC

You're still struggling to string together a cohesive thought.  I'll keep you in my prayers.

RAmen.

 Your education level must have been fairly low if you struggle to understand my simple statement. I'm tired of this back and forth with you and will not participate anymore.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 15, 2017 at 2:18 pm)Godscreated Wrote:
(August 15, 2017 at 6:54 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote: You're still struggling to string together a cohesive thought.  I'll keep you in my prayers.

RAmen.

 Your education level must have been fairly low if you struggle to understand my simple statement. I'm tired of this back and forth with you and will not participate anymore.

GC.
So you admit defeat.  My first debate victory,sweet

All through the power and glory of FSM.  I'll keep you in my prayers GC.

RAmen
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming"  -The Prophet Boiardi-

      Conservative trigger warning.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 15, 2017 at 9:51 am)Brian37 Wrote: You can drive off a cliff to teach driving so sure, that can be a "model". But if you agree that ID is discredited why even coddle them at all by letting them bastardize the use of the word "model" and pretend it is even close to a neutral scientific process?

So you don't like the way I used a word.

Don't worry, you'll live. Smile

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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 15, 2017 at 5:20 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(August 15, 2017 at 9:51 am)Brian37 Wrote: You can drive off a cliff to teach driving so sure, that can be a "model". But if you agree that ID is discredited why even coddle them at all by letting them bastardize the use of the word "model" and pretend it is even close to a neutral scientific process?

So you don't like the way I used a word.

Don't worry, you'll live. Smile

I am not demanding you don't use it, I am saying I wouldn't advise it because theist really cant tell or ignore the difference between when they use the same word and when we use it.

If you rightfully say ID doesn't work, and I agree, it is utter nonsense, then using the word "model" during such an apology allows them to falsely think they have something comparable to neutral scientific method.

It is nothing but a bad apology and throwing in the word "model" wont change the fact that it is nothing more than an apology.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
They can, and will, think what they wish. I've never noticed them paying attention to any of my words otherwise, and I doubt they will start now.

Many hypotheses which have been debunked still have "model" attached to them, and the usage is perfectly appropriate.

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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 15, 2017 at 5:39 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: They can, and will, think what they wish. I've never noticed them paying attention to any of my words otherwise, and I doubt they will start now.

Many hypotheses which have been debunked still have "model" attached to them, and the usage is perfectly appropriate.

Ok, fine, you know I am not really angry or fighting you but "just sayen".

As an aside, your new avatar is not only what, a beaver? But it also has the same alt right black and red color scheme. HE HE, I am sure that was purely unintentional on your part, but I just noticed it and it gave me a chuckle.

We now return you to your regular thread already in progress.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
It's Bucee Beaver, the mascot for a chain of truck-stops here in Texas. The color scheme was purely accidental; they've had that logo for decades.

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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
(August 15, 2017 at 5:52 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It's Bucee Beaver, the mascot for a chain of truck-stops here in Texas. The color scheme was purely accidental; they've had that logo for decades.

I kinda figured, but a beaver and a red hat? I won't hold it against you knowing it is far older than 45's red hat and pussy comment. Still funny I made that connection even if coincidental.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
Rorschach would have a field-day with you, Brian.

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