(September 13, 2017 at 11:54 pm)Losty Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 11:46 pm)Astonished Wrote: If they're crystal clear that A has mountains of evidence backing it and B has none and is self-contradictory and self-defeating, then sure, present both ideas. You can just sure as shit find a better source of literature and moral lessons than any religious doctrine's library, so why even bring it up?

Most of our children live in the real world. They're going to encounter religion whether we like it or not. I'd rather they learn about it from me rather than some crackpot.

\thread

(September 13, 2017 at 11:32 pm)Losty Wrote: People shouldn't teach their kids anything that isn't a verifiable fact until they're old enough to rationalize their own opinions.

^^^^^^

(September 13, 2017 at 11:57 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 11:32 pm)Losty Wrote: People shouldn't teach their kids anything that isn't a verifiable fact until they're old enough to rationalize their own opinions.

^^^^^^

Period. I find it baffling how people can think that their religious indoctrination bullshit is anything like teaching their kids HOW to think rather than what to think when it's the exact polar fucking opposite.

(September 13, 2017 at 10:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 10:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Someone posts saying they hate religious people and would rather see us get killed than teach our own kids about our faith, and 2 others kudos this??

He did say he didn't want you to get run over by a bus.  What more do you want?

No, he said he'd rather me get run over by a bus than see me teach my kids about my faith.

(September 14, 2017 at 12:08 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 10:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: He did say he didn't want you to get run over by a bus.  What more do you want?

No, he said he'd rather me get run over by a bus than see me teach my kids about my faith.

Sweetheart, do you not understand the distinction between teaching and indoctrinating?

Or the difference between a documentary and a propaganda film? Or the difference between ethics derived from the axiom of human well-being and those derived from the axiom of might makes right and absolute authority?

Maybe that's your problem, right there. Think about that. Then think about why I might have a problem with you preventing your children from understanding those important things because of your mental block. Want to tell me your parents' teachings didn't fuck you up in some way, again?

Astonished...I hate to say you're kind of a douche

(September 14, 2017 at 12:16 am)Losty Wrote: Astonished...I hate to say you're kind of a douche

Never said I wasn't. I just calls 'em like I sees 'em. Looks like you do too. I respect that.

If someone looks at a Ken Ham indoctrination seminar and says, "Holy fuck, that's awful. That is absolutely nothing like how I teach my kids about religion," then that's progress, of a kind (in the words of Hitchens). I'm still not convinced it's being presented in a fair and balanced way in either case but the non-Ham-sandwiches aren't the ones I'd stand by and watch traffic plow into, I'd yank them back onto the sidewalk. I'd probably slap them upside the head if they said I did it because I'm borrowing morality from their religious worldview, but I wouldn't regret bringing them back from the brink. But between guys like Ken Ham and Fred Phelps and pedo priests and the guys who kidnap people and hold them hostage in their basements? I'd rather not get my shoes dirty.

I'd ask a parent who claims to be more moderate in their religious views and teaching their children, if your child reached adulthood, concluded you are wrong about everything, expressed their concerns about you believing in it and said in no uncertain terms that you did them no favors by introducing that into their lives, what would you say, what would your reaction be? There are very, very few answers that would not be a cause for concern, and the unfortunate reality is, the ones that aren't are probably in the vast minority.

@CL- I wouldn't be too offended about the kudos. You never know why a person might give kudos. It doesn't mean they agree with everything said in the post.

(September 13, 2017 at 11:30 pm)Astonished Wrote: Why do I see two pieces of fucking shit who informed me personally that they were putting me on ignore responding to my posts? Fucking bizarro world.

But let me reiterate a point I've expounded upon multiple times that the religiously brain-addled don't seem to comprehend: You do not have the right to indoctrinate your children. You are violating their human rights by doing so. Absent of this mental enslavement, as can be testified by everyone here who found emancipation from this, their intellectual freedom is being taken from them by mentally ill authority figures and once they take it back, the crime and its effects are realized and the perpetrators are easily identified. You do not have a moral or intellectual high ground, or any high ground at all, really. You are wrong on every point of science and ethics you attempt and fail to promote. Your beliefs and actions are a cancer on society and the planet and the best thing for yourselves and everyone else is for you to be rid of this plague and yet all you do is perpetuate it and ignore the truth of its harm to yourselves and others.

So you're goddamn right, I think you're better off dead than able to poison the mind of even a single child; what's the name of the guy you're all so fond of, who said 'woe to he that harms a child'? If you hate priests who diddle innocent children, believe me when I say there is ZERO goddamn fucking difference between what you're doing to them but for the fact that it's psychological rather than physical (though it can quite often cause manifestations of physical harm in one way or another). It is every bit as predatory, cynical, dishonest, and far, far too rampant and only permissible because there are so fucking many of you, but hey, any plague is going to have far more casualties than survivors.

Don't give me this bullshit about sanctity of life, free will, or any of it. You contradict yourselves at every turn with how you treat your children in this way. Fuck off. And look both ways before you cross the street.

I never said I would put you on ignore.

And yeah, if/when I have a child I fully plan on teaching him or her about my faith... just as my parents taught me. So I guess you can add to the list of people you would rather see dead.

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(September 14, 2017 at 12:13 am)Astonished Wrote:

(September 14, 2017 at 12:08 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No, he said he'd rather me get run over by a bus than see me teach my kids about my faith.

Sweetheart, do you not understand the distinction between teaching and indoctrinating?

Or the difference between a documentary and a propaganda film? Or the difference between ethics derived from the axiom of human well-being and those derived from the axiom of might makes right and absolute authority?

Maybe that's your problem, right there. Think about that. Then think about why I might have a problem with you preventing your children from understanding those important things because of your mental block. Want to tell me your parents' teachings didn't fuck you up in some way, again?

Ok, then what is the difference between teaching and indoctrinating in this case?

(September 14, 2017 at 12:42 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 11:30 pm)Astonished Wrote: Why do I see two pieces of fucking shit who informed me personally that they were putting me on ignore responding to my posts? Fucking bizarro world.

But let me reiterate a point I've expounded upon multiple times that the religiously brain-addled don't seem to comprehend: You do not have the right to indoctrinate your children. You are violating their human rights by doing so. Absent of this mental enslavement, as can be testified by everyone here who found emancipation from this, their intellectual freedom is being taken from them by mentally ill authority figures and once they take it back, the crime and its effects are realized and the perpetrators are easily identified. You do not have a moral or intellectual high ground, or any high ground at all, really. You are wrong on every point of science and ethics you attempt and fail to promote. Your beliefs and actions are a cancer on society and the planet and the best thing for yourselves and everyone else is for you to be rid of this plague and yet all you do is perpetuate it and ignore the truth of its harm to yourselves and others.

So you're goddamn right, I think you're better off dead than able to poison the mind of even a single child; what's the name of the guy you're all so fond of, who said 'woe to he that harms a child'? If you hate priests who diddle innocent children, believe me when I say there is ZERO goddamn fucking difference between what you're doing to them but for the fact that it's psychological rather than physical (though it can quite often cause manifestations of physical harm in one way or another). It is every bit as predatory, cynical, dishonest, and far, far too rampant and only permissible because there are so fucking many of you, but hey, any plague is going to have far more casualties than survivors.

Don't give me this bullshit about sanctity of life, free will, or any of it. You contradict yourselves at every turn with how you treat your children in this way. Fuck off. And look both ways before you cross the street.

I never said I would put you on ignore.

And yeah, if/when I have a child I fully plan on teaching him or her about my faith... just as my parents taught me. So I guess you can add to the list of people you would rather see dead.

---

(September 14, 2017 at 12:13 am)Astonished Wrote: Sweetheart, do you not understand the distinction between teaching and indoctrinating?

Or the difference between a documentary and a propaganda film? Or the difference between ethics derived from the axiom of human well-being and those derived from the axiom of might makes right and absolute authority?

Maybe that's your problem, right there. Think about that. Then think about why I might have a problem with you preventing your children from understanding those important things because of your mental block. Want to tell me your parents' teachings didn't fuck you up in some way, again?

Ok, then what is the difference between teaching and indoctrinating in this case?

One is synonymous with brainwashing. I thought that was a commonly understood facet of indoctrination. This ignorance on your part is what alarms me so greatly about even moderation in this topic. You literally prove that something upstairs has gotten damaged or removed (hopefully not beyond repair or replacement) every time something like this needs to be brought up or clarified in topics that require complex thought or which have to correct you on previously misinformed definitions of words you've been taught (a lovely hallmark of the faithful, twisting definitions to suit their purposes no matter how wrong it is.) You're not one of the people I'm that worried about because I think you're fair-weather enough that your kids will grow up to either have a much weaker faith than yours or become outright atheists. I don't see you as having a forceful enough will to follow through, or if pushed too hard, you'd be so desperate to overcompensate that you'd protest too much and drive them away from your belief system anyway.

And you aren't one of the two I was referring to that had put me on ignore, I was referring to Neo-Craptastic and Gullible Cretin. I extended them the same middle finger and on the rare occasion I see the content of their posts because someone quoted them, I'm never disappointed that they're as vapid and proving our points as always.

But in all honesty...if you make your kids sit through a service that they hate, you're an asshole, no matter what faith you're from or level of adherence you subscribe to. You don't need to brainwash them to be a prick in that way.