I was just thinking about this the other night while watching insects outside the window while making a late supper.

Some of the bigger insects were eating smaller insects. They were all attracted to the light, so the predators could expect more prey - food.

I was thinking about another hoard of insects that appeared a couple of weeks ago. They looked disgusting. A neighbour told me not to worry, that they only live 3 days, lay their eggs, die, and they'll be gone for another year. They're gone now.

Thinking of those insects, I wonder if they would think they or their lives have "meaning"? What on earth could it mean for one particular one of those insects to live with precisely the genes he or she has? Could it be reasonably assumed that "God" has a "plan" for each and every one of those? Does that plan involve them encountering others of their kind, others they prey upon, or escaping or providing a meal for a particular predator? Does "God" Save them from dragonflies or from flyswatters, just so they can encounter another insect of their kind and intact in some way? That seems pretty ridiculous to think that anyone could be so interested in the life and times of each of those silly insects that live 3 days. What makes me think that anyone out there is interested in a particular person's job hunt, prayer, aunt's cancer, cousin's procreation? Or, interested in all of the people who live in a particular city? None of these individual insects' lives or deaths matter at all to anyone or anything else. Why do humans believe that we are more special than insects?

I've come to believe that life - or consciousness existing within some delineated set of chemical reactions - is a mere "accident" of nature, which has as a purpose to continue on that type of configuration for that set of chemicals. There is no real purpose to it, much less any "meaning" to it.

It's even less meaningful to me than to try to ascertain the "meaning" of some artwork - modern or ancient.

(August 5, 2011 at 8:59 pm)BethK Wrote: I've come to believe that life - or consciousness existing within some delineated set of chemical reactions - is a mere "accident" of nature, which has as a purpose to continue on that type of configuration for that set of chemicals. There is no real purpose to it, much less any "meaning" to it.

I totally agree with that, there isn't a reason for us being here or a greater meaning for it all, I do think that the chain of events that resulted on our species (since the big bang) was a 1 in 100000000000... combination that by chance got us here and that makes it even more unbelivably awesome than if it was by magic. And I figure, since we are here we should make the best of it. I know I am.

(August 5, 2011 at 8:59 pm)BethK Wrote: I've come to believe that life - or consciousness existing within some delineated set of chemical reactions - is a mere "accident" of nature, which has as a purpose to continue on that type of configuration for that set of chemicals. There is no real purpose to it, much less any "meaning" to it.

I think there is a valid distinction that needs to be made between cosmic values and purpose and subjective values and purpose, for the former I am as certain as anything that they do not exist, the latter is our subjective values, hedonically the experience of pleasure but for me we have to take into account all sources of value, that includes our desires too and possibly yet to be determined cognitive mechanisms.

The subjective experience of value and meaning to me is fully real and seeing as it is the only kind of 'meaning' that we experience it is the only kind of meaning worth caring about. You can always spot a potential problem by the person claiming access to these cosmic values, they often manifest as radical religious or political authoritarians.

(August 5, 2011 at 7:25 pm)shadowdancer Wrote:

(June 30, 2011 at 1:54 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Heh

& Some of it is suicide inducing.

Hey, which one is suicide-inducing?

IMHO, Life doesn't have any meaning. It is us, our consciousness who create imaginary meaning to any event in this world.

Lions hunt to eat and feed their cubs. But do it have any meaning? no.
Same with people, they work, pursuing career, etc to live, eat, and create offspring. Does that have any meaning? no.

We need to deduce meaning to motivate ourselves. We all do it. Our lives would be empty without. Hollow; depressing : like Neitzche's philosophy : it's a worldview I find particularly unnatractive. I just don't think it's very intelligent to follow a destructive line of reasoning that makes life unbearable.

No one is talking about 'imaginary meaning' but thanks for that obvious straw man.. it helped not at all with anything. Useless. Superfluous. Imaginary. Evidence of you doing that exact thing : justifying yourself with empty bullshit.

I'd just like to point out that while I think there is no good reason to believe that there is any cosmic meaning or purpose to life outside that which we give ourselves, it doesn't mean there isn't one yet to be discovered. What though, besides conscious intelligent life has the capability of discovering such a thing if it does exist?

(June 30, 2011 at 1:54 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: We need to deduce meaning to motivate ourselves. We all do it. Our lives would be empty without. Hollow; depressing : like Neitzche's philosophy : it's a worldview I find particularly unnatractive. I just don't think it's very intelligent to follow a destructive line of reasoning that makes life unbearable.

No one is talking about 'imaginary meaning' but thanks for that obvious straw man.. it helped not at all with anything. Useless. Superfluous. Imaginary. Evidence of you doing that exact thing : justifying yourself with empty bullshit.

This is probably more personal choices than fact.
But I don't need meaning to live this life.

This world is not unattractive, this world is fascinating, and real. too real. That's why kids are fascinated, amazed by the world just from their five senses. While we adults, getting bored because we do not want to sense it anymore. We build our thought, imaginary things and forget that there still fascinating things around.

This world is also very real. Probably too real for many persons so they need imaginary places such as heaven.

We humans are just part of the evolution of this world. This world is antifragile. They will thrive with or without us. We born from nothing, live consuming almost anything, then die returning to nothing. Just that.

(June 30, 2011 at 4:15 am)TheYoungAtheist Wrote: . I'm an avid reader of the work's of Friedrich Nietzsche, and in Here are some quotations from his works involving this idea: "My idea is that every specific body strives to become master over all space and to extend its force (--its will to power) and to thrust back all that resists its extension. But it continually encounters similar efforts on the part of other bodies and ends by coming to an arrangement ("union") with those of them that are sufficiently related to it: thus they then conspire together for power. And the process goes on--"

Nietzsche was an eccentric, in my opinion. However, with regard to that quotation I would respond in contrast to his observation by saying, if mastery and the will to power is the meaning of life in humans, then most of us wouldn't run from tornado's.

Anthropocentrism, is evident even in presuming the meaning of life is to survive and either further our own destiny or breed.

What's the meaning of life? That would imply you have a purpose because you have a pulse. The meaning of your life is to live your will, among nearly 7 billion other individuals that are about the same business.
Why worry about what's behind the curtain, presuming there is a curtain or something there?

Live! Till you die.