(October 4, 2017 at 3:01 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: It's just like using a mobile. Are you accusing modern humans of talking to blocks of plastic?

Oh, it's just like that is it?  You text him, he texts you.  Every once in awhile there's a message on your voicemail.  You take a call and chat with him about lunch.  How long do you plan on selling this lie?

Quote:I can say the exact same thing about the new iphone..

Can you..do you believe that the iphone is the author of the cosmos...or....?

Quote:I'll give you a list:

You're clearly compelled to provide a list of lies the religious sell........though I don't think that you gave as much effort to the last five as you did the first two.

(October 4, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(October 4, 2017 at 3:01 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: It's just like using a mobile. Are you accusing modern humans of talking to blocks of plastic?

Oh, it's just like that is it?  You text him, he texts you.  Every once in awhile there's a message on your voicemail.  You take a call and chat with him about lunch.  How long do you plan on selling this lie?

I'm comparing wireless communication to a heavenly one. Back in the past; people couldn't even imagine that their grandchildren will talk to other humans across the globe. Saying that it's "possible" meant that the person behind the claim will be a joke; or in some ancient societies: a Kebab on a stake.
But surprisingly, humanity literally saw that this is so possible; and the "shame of the past" became the "stuff you pay lots of money for in universities".
It's not a lie; but it's the simple separation in paths: it is proved -even scientifically- that we have no idea about what is out there beyond space; there is a beyond and we proved it; so either:
1-I believe something is out there; and it made things the way they are
2-I don't believe something is out there
Not a lie; K.
A simple choice. Look for lies in the acts of those who use the above to gain profit. But even aliens are believable now with all the discoveries taking place.

Quote:Can you..do you believe that the iphone is the author of the cosmos...or....?

No !

When the phone "rings"; and you "pick it up"; a neanderthal would look at you and think that you are the crazy "man" talking to blocks of plastic !!

Quote:You're clearly compelled to provide a list of lies the religious sell........though I don't think that you gave as much effort to the last five as you did the first two.

How?

Quote:1-Salvation is guaranteed if you "listen to the institution they represent; because their institution=God's servants on earth".
2-That they have ID cards that logs them into "paradise".
3-They always kill you if you convert to other faiths; or in other cases harass you.
4-They always sell people "imaginary keys" to forgiveness; from the Christian "confession" rooms to the "Islamic Sunni/Shiite martyrdom".
5-All the above is "written as a fact" in many of the books that "these religious people believe". That's the big nasty lie. 

1-
https://islamqa.info/en/96531

2-
https://islamqa.info/en/96531
(Same link)

3-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

4-
https://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/20

5-I brought links from the official books of Sunnies. Believe me; you don't wanna read what I read from Shiites books too in Arabic.

I know too that the Bible is full of similar stuff. Of course; the Quran has nothing related.
Not lies; K. Just research probably.

You have an iFloor?

(October 4, 2017 at 4:35 pm)Cyberman Wrote: You have an iFloor?

Telephone technology uses complex electronics, materials technology and - yes - relativity theory. Floor technology, unless I haven't kept up with developments, tends to be more wood and concrete based. Other than "it just works", what are the points of similarity between iphones and prayers?

(October 4, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Telephone technology uses complex electronics, materials technology and - yes - relativity theory. Floor technology, unless I haven't kept up with developments, tends to be more wood and concrete based. Other than "it just works", what are the points of similarity between iphones and prayers?

The concept of phone is that sound waves can be transferred over a physical medium, with mobiles we knew it can be transferred through thin air, with computers we combined the previous two; and were even able to add a live broadcast.

If humans can do this with these limited resources, why won't a God be able to listen to the sound waves I make; transferred through everything in between as a medium of movement? in other words; some day we might see exactly that this is so possible. The ancients made the mistake of underestimating the future and what it might bring; it's a trap I don't want to fall in.

(October 4, 2017 at 5:29 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: If humans can do this with these limited resources, why won't a God be able to listen to the sound waves I make; transferred through everything in between as a medium of movement?  in other words; some day we might see exactly that this is so possible. The ancients made the mistake of underestimating the future and what it might bring; it's a trap I don't want to fall in.

But there is demonstrable evidence that humans actually exist. And also, that electronic communications actually exist.

All we have from you, is a feeling you get in your brain.

Tell you what, next time you are conversing with god, ask him what is the single best argument and evidence to convince us of his existence. I am sure you will agree, a god that can create and maintain the universe, should easily be able to provide you with the answer.

Obviously you have never asked him this, because ALL the arguments you have ever posted here, are fatally flawed and fallacious.

(October 4, 2017 at 6:50 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: But there is demonstrable evidence that humans actually exist. And also, that electronic communications actually exist.

All we have from you, is a feeling you get in your brain.

Tell you what, next time you are conversing with god, ask him what is the single best argument and evidence to convince us of his existence. I am sure you will agree, a god that can create and maintain the universe, should easily be able to provide you with the answer.

Obviously you have never asked him this, because ALL the arguments you have ever posted here, are fatally flawed and fallacious.

Actually you got it all wrong; and got my belief wrong also.

Belief is something personal that only you can begin. According to how I understand my religion. Check this verse from the Quran:

Quote:Sura 13, The Quran:

( 31 )   And if there was any qur'an by which the mountains would be removed or the earth would be broken apart or the dead would be made to speak, but to Allah belongs the affair entirely. Then have those who believed not accepted that had Allah willed, He would have guided the people, all of them? And those who disbelieve do not cease to be struck, for what they have done, by calamity - or it will descend near their home - until there comes the promise of Allah. Indeed, Allah does not fail in [His] promise.

And

Quote:Sura 11, The Quran:

( 118 )   And if your Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ.
( 119 )   Except whom your Lord has given mercy, and for that He created them. But the word of your Lord is to be fulfilled that, "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and men all together."
( 120 )   And each [story] We relate to you from the news of the messengers is that by which We make firm your heart. And there has come to you, in this, the truth and an instruction and a reminder for the believers.
( 121 )   And say to those who do not believe, "Work according to your position; indeed, we are working.
( 122 )   And wait, indeed, we are waiting."
( 123 )   And to Allah belong the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth and to Him will be returned the matter, all of it, so worship Him and rely upon Him. And your Lord is not unaware of that which you do.

I have no "magical" argument because according to these verses; I understand that the God of Islam himself already created people and difference; knew that some will believe and some won't. But Sura 11 verse 122 is interesting; because it gives a slap to Islamophobia, terrorists, and the "angry Hamza" who wants a global caliphate.

Anyhow; I don't believe Islam is about me, or armies of missionaries bombarding you and atheists with the "magical arguments"; converting you in 3 seconds. Like a bundle at a supermarket: convert an atheist and get another for free.

You can't control people. I'll quote God and say if he had willed; they would've believe. But they would never cease to differ.
But he created for us lots and lots of signs that can lead us to him; the design is just so fantastic. But people have free will; people differ.

Some believe; some don't.

I didn't read the first post. Is it ironic that assholes like Atlas Shrugged here think that using their book to prove their book isn't circular reasoning? Because it's not, it's just sad and pathetic. Just like ignoring parts of the book that he doesn't like.

(October 4, 2017 at 5:29 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(October 4, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Telephone technology uses complex electronics, materials technology and - yes - relativity theory. Floor technology, unless I haven't kept up with developments, tends to be more wood and concrete based. Other than "it just works", what are the points of similarity between iphones and prayers?

The concept of phone is that sound waves can be transferred over a physical medium, with mobiles we knew it can be transferred through thin air, with computers we combined the previous two; and were even able to add a live broadcast.

If humans can do this with these limited resources, why won't a God be able to listen to the sound waves I make; transferred through everything in between as a medium of movement?

Because that's not how long-range communication works. Besides which you're trying to rationalise talking to an imaginary friend in physical terms, which is just silly because at some point you're going to have to invoke pretend magic anyway. Plus there's no god at the other end anyway. You're all chanting to a floor, a ceiling or a wall and pretending it's some deep mystical communion. Yet you're the ones that worship architecture.