That's why school bullies get killed. The bully is cruising to be the next victim.

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(October 25, 2017 at 5:09 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I've always felt the pledge was stupid.  I mean, think about it:

We're making (whether through actual rules or social coercion) children stand up and recite a pledge of allegiance, on a daily basis.

Why are children making pledges to a form of government?
Why must it be done daily (does it somehow wear off)?
Why are they doing it if it's not actually binding in anyway?

It's okay to actually think about traditions.  How they're performed, what their social function actually is, what they actually mean beyond "Well, it's just what we do."  Tradition for tradition's sake is vapid.

As usual everything started with one asshole.  In the case of the Pledge of Allegiance it was started by a defrocked Baptist minister, Francis Bellamy, who wanted to indoctrinate school kids into socialism with a military tint.  This is also the asshole who got Columbus Day as as national holiday.  So here we are well over a century later doing what some nut inflicted upon the population to satisfy his own ego.

(October 25, 2017 at 9:47 pm)Court Jester Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 2:13 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/watch-s...llegiance/

I'm a hard core republican that has canceled my Indiana colts season tickets for myself and my customers for kneeling bs, but that's some bad parenting on the kicker's part.

This bullshit of vilifying protest, is childish peer pressure on a political scale. 

The soldiers of WW2 fought against a state that demanded blind loyalty. If you want to live in states that vilify dissent and shame, try Saudi Arabia or North Korea. 

The ritual is just that. The Constitution and oath of office are LAW, and part of that is upholding the individual's free speech, kneeling isn't dishonoring that concept, it is not saying those who do it hate America. It is very American to speak to power and point out problems. 

I vomit when I read posts like this knowing you'd look at the history footage of this, then bitch about Americans protesting here. Is this what you want America to become? 

(October 25, 2017 at 2:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 2:34 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Let's face it. It's not disrespectful even if you're not protesting.

I think it is disrespectful if you are not protesting for a particular cause. Not standing up for no other reason than just because you "can't be bothered" is disrespectful. So many people have died for this country and risked their lives for it. Meanwhile someone else can't even be bothered to stand up for 2 minutes? I see that as disrespectdul to those people and especially to those people's families who have to deal with the fear for, and absense/loss of, their loved ones.

It's an unconstitutional piece of rabble rousing rhetoric more suited to somewhere like Nazi Germany.

(October 26, 2017 at 8:09 am)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 2:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think it is disrespectful if you are not protesting for a particular cause. Not standing up for no other reason than just because you "can't be bothered" is disrespectful. So many people have died for this country and risked their lives for it. Meanwhile someone else can't even be bothered to stand up for 2 minutes? I see that as disrespectdul to those people and especially to those people's families who have to deal with the fear for, and absense/loss of, their loved ones.

It's an unconstitutional piece of rabble rousing rhetoric more suited to somewhere like Nazi Germany.

I think that is what she is not getting.

This is not spitting on the service of her husband, not one bit. The western concepts of the ability to dissent as an individual citizen, and protesting power, isn't an indictment of service. It is what her husband defends, the First Amendment is not a demand to always agree.

I value her husband's service, regardless of his personal political views. But no matter what the personal beliefs of the individual soldier there is no party oath to serve, every soldier takes the same oath, and that oath is to the Constitution, not voluntary ritual.

I can't stand McCain's economic views, but have NEVER nor will ever question his service just like I don't question the service of Khan.

The D-Day soldiers were not politically monochromatic. They were from BOTH parties and came from every state in the Union. The soldiers of Nam, same thing. And that pluralism in service still remains today as it should be.

There is absolutely no point in having the First Amendment if we demand blind loyalty through forced ritual.

(October 25, 2017 at 9:47 pm)Court Jester Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 2:13 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/watch-s...llegiance/

I'm a hard core republican that has canceled my Indiana colts season tickets for myself and my customers for kneeling bs, but that's some bad parenting on the kicker's part.

Aww, you upset because other people dare think differently than you?

My heart bleeds.

(October 26, 2017 at 8:35 am)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 9:47 pm)Court Jester Wrote: I'm a hard core republican that has canceled my Indiana colts season tickets for myself and my customers for kneeling bs, but that's some bad parenting on the kicker's part.

Aww, you upset because other people dare think differently than you?

My heart bleeds.

North Korea is full of patriots too. And the punishment for not being a patriot is pretty nasty there.

You guys are aware that the pledge of allegiance is one of those things only Americans do?... At least, among the countries of the "western world".

It's one of those things that sound very creepy about your school system.
You say it's 2 minutes?... I say it's 2 minutes every day, over 200 days per year... That amounts to hours of useless "patriotic" indoctrination.

If you know your country is good, you stand by it. Just look at what I do concerning Portugal!
I never had to recite anything about the country at school... At most, we had the lyrics to our national anthem in the Portuguese Language textbook and maybe read it out loud once?... In 4th grade, or so...

Is every Portuguese kid disrespectful to their country and the people who have, since the 1100's, lost their lives to defend it, expand it, retain it, govern it?

And yet, here I am, advertising it to you all every chance I get.
Do I really think it's a utopia? No, of course not. It has its ups and downs, but it's a great place to live, an awesome place to visit and has some great food to offer.
[I can get paid, now]

(October 26, 2017 at 8:09 am)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 2:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think it is disrespectful if you are not protesting for a particular cause. Not standing up for no other reason than just because you "can't be bothered" is disrespectful. So many people have died for this country and risked their lives for it. Meanwhile someone else can't even be bothered to stand up for 2 minutes? I see that as disrespectdul to those people and especially to those people's families who have to deal with the fear for, and absense/loss of, their loved ones.

It's an unconstitutional piece of rabble rousing rhetoric more suited to somewhere like Nazi Germany.

Lol you are so obsessed with Nazis and calling everyone a Nazi.

(October 26, 2017 at 10:59 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 26, 2017 at 8:09 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: It's an unconstitutional piece of rabble rousing rhetoric more suited to somewhere like Nazi Germany.

Lol you are so obsessed with Nazis and calling everyone a Nazi.

Spoken like a true Nazi.  

(October 26, 2017 at 9:12 am)pocaracas Wrote: You guys are aware that the pledge of allegiance is one of those things only Americans do?... At least, among the countries of the "western world".

It's one of those things that sound very creepy about your school system.
You say it's 2 minutes?... I say it's 2 minutes every day, over 200 days per year... That amounts to hours of useless "patriotic" indoctrination.

If you know your country is good, you stand by it. Just look at what I do concerning Portugal!
I never had to recite anything about the country at school... At most, we had the lyrics to our national anthem in the Portuguese Language textbook and maybe read it out loud once?... In 4th grade, or so...

Is every Portuguese kid disrespectful to their country and the people who have, since the 1100's, lost their lives to defend it, expand it, retain it, govern it?

And yet, here I am, advertising it to you all every chance I get.
Do I really think it's a utopia? No, of course not. It has its ups and downs, but it's a great place to live, an awesome place to visit and has some great food to offer.
[I can get paid, now]

I moved to the United States from Brazil when I was 7 years old. I am quite aware. I remember my first day of school in the US when everyone stood up, put their hand over their hearts, and recited something while facing the flag. I remember assuming it was some kind of special day for the country, like independence day or something. But once it happened every day, I caught on that it was just something Americans did daily. 

I remember thinking it was dumb ever since I was that young. I would stand up but I didn't put my hand over my heart or say anything. I just stood there without doing or saying a word, and thought I was so cool for it. I was actually like that all through school, and it wasn't until I started getting a little older and more mature that I really started to reflect and appreciate this country and the fact that I'm lucky enough to have moved here from a 3rd world country. America isn't perfect by any means, but no place is. But having seen and lived in other parts of the world, and having many family members still living in other parts of the world and hearing about it and visiting it, I realize how fortunate I am and am humbled by it and by all those who work so hard at making this place what it is. Anti American sentiments really irk me. 

No one should be forced to stand, or bullied in any way shape or form for not standing. But am I going to think it's cute when they don't? No. I was one of those kids at one point. And I look back at myself and think my dismissiveness was ungrateful and disrespectful.

(edit to add - also it's not 2 minutes, it's more like 15 seconds. not sure why i said 2 minutes)