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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:41 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 2:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 9, 2017 at 2:23 pm)pool the matey Wrote: They never claimed it can withstand scientific scrutiny. Neither did the person selling arsenic laced jelly beans, or the person claiming that schoolchildren can fly on broomsticks(if such a person exists, lol)....but that doesn't matter. A claim is amenable to scientific scrutiny on grounds independent of whether or not a person claims to be doing science or even knows what that is.
As it so happens, arsenic laced jelly beans don't cure cancer..children can't fly on broomsticks, and the relevant claims contained in magic book have been falsified. What would be expected to be found if they were true was not...and what would be expected to be found if they were false....was.
Your premise is unsound, and your conclusion doesn't follow.
Let me help you...
Scientific evidence regarding any claim x may only be present when said claim x is one which lends itself to scientific inquiry.
Some claims x in magic book are not claims which lend themselves to scientific inquiry.
Therefore, for some claims x in magic book, I do not possess and there may be no scientific evidence.
See, easy. Valid, sound, true....doesn't require mounds of bullshit or petulant whining about trilobites and harry fucking potter.
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:43 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 2:33 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Well if you're comparing the bible to harry potter and comic books, we're halfway there!
(November 9, 2017 at 2:32 pm)pool the matey Wrote:
Seriously dude just stop alright? You've contributed your part but now you're not contributing anything other than poking fun at me, not cool, please just stop.
I'm simply reiterating that your argument and reasoning is entirely circular. It's illogic is simple and blatant.
I'm not comparing Bible to Harry Potter and comic book..ffs. .. I gave an example for why subjecting everything and anything to scientific scrutiny is a silly concept. Because then you'll have to research about everything like Harry Potter and stuff in the comic books. It only makes sense to subject something that claims that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny because if you still subject something that doesn't claim that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny and you get the result that it cannot withstand scientific scrutiny then what did you achieve? You achieved nothing because guess what you proved something they NEVER claimed! It's meaningless. My point is that context matters, a religious work should only be criticized within the religious ground and comic books should only be criticized within their ground and harry potter movies only criticized within only the ground they cover....
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:44 pm
Quote:Religious Views: Atheist turned Christian
Uh, when did that happen? Or are you Poe-ing?
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:46 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 2:43 pm)pool the matey Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 2:33 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Well if you're comparing the bible to harry potter and comic books, we're halfway there!
I'm simply reiterating that your argument and reasoning is entirely circular. It's illogic is simple and blatant.
I'm not comparing Bible to Harry Potter and comic book..ffs. .. I gave an example for why subjecting everything and anything to scientific scrutiny is a silly concept. Because then you'll have to research about everything like Harry Potter and stuff in the comic books. It only makes sense to subject something that claims that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny because if you still subject something that doesn't claim that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny and you get the result that it cannot withstand scientific scrutiny then what did you achieve? You achieved nothing because guess what you proved something they NEVER claimed! It's meaningless. My point is that context matters, a religious work should only be criticized within the religious ground and comic books should only be criticized within their ground and harry potter movies only criticized within only the ground they cover....
But harry potter doesn't claim to be true in the real world. The bible does, and makes claims about the real world. Herein lies the difference, pooley.
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:48 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 2:43 pm)pool the matey Wrote: I gave an example for why subjecting everything and anything to scientific scrutiny is a silly concept. Because then you'll have to research about everything like Harry Potter and stuff in the comic books.
Only if a person makes a claim that those books make existential claims about reality, pool - and the burden is on the person making the former claim.
(November 9, 2017 at 2:43 pm)pool the matey Wrote: It only makes sense to subject something that claims that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny because if you still subject something that doesn't claim that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny and you get the result that it cannot withstand scientific scrutiny then what did you achieve? You achieved nothing because guess what you proved something they NEVER claimed! It's meaningless. My point is that context matters, a religious work should only be criticized within the religious ground and comic books should only be criticized within their ground and harry potter movies only criticized within only the ground they cover....
I would agree with you, right up to the point where those religious works make existential claims about reality. If such claims aren't evidently true (that is, if evidence is not provided), then the truth values of those existential claims cannot be determined.
Your point is nonsense.
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:54 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 2:46 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 2:43 pm)pool the matey Wrote: I'm not comparing Bible to Harry Potter and comic book..ffs. .. I gave an example for why subjecting everything and anything to scientific scrutiny is a silly concept. Because then you'll have to research about everything like Harry Potter and stuff in the comic books. It only makes sense to subject something that claims that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny because if you still subject something that doesn't claim that it can withstand scientific scrutiny to scientific scrutiny and you get the result that it cannot withstand scientific scrutiny then what did you achieve? You achieved nothing because guess what you proved something they NEVER claimed! It's meaningless. My point is that context matters, a religious work should only be criticized within the religious ground and comic books should only be criticized within their ground and harry potter movies only criticized within only the ground they cover....
But harry potter doesn't claim to be true in the real world. The bible does, and makes claims about the real world. Herein lies the difference, pooley.
Actually it does, they call it the "muggles" or something I don't remember but the claim they make is in a fiction context (because Harry Potter only claims its fiction) so it's fine to criticize it in that context. The claims Bible makes is in a religious context so it's fine to criticize it in that context. If you criticize it in any other context it is just silly, you're saying you can criticize a religious book in a scientific context and prove it is false, some other guy will claim he can prove that science is wrong when it says a spider bite "doesn't make you spiderman" in a comic book context. See where I'm getting? If you remove the context and criticize something in the context of something else EVERYTHING can be shown as false.
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:55 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 2:56 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
(November 9, 2017 at 2:54 pm)pool the matey Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 2:46 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: But harry potter doesn't claim to be true in the real world. The bible does, and makes claims about the real world. Herein lies the difference, pooley.
Actually it does, they call it the "muggles" or something I don't remember but the claim they make is in a fiction context (because Harry Potter only claims its fiction) so it's fine to criticize it in that context. The claims Bible makes is in a religious context so it's fine to criticize it in that context. If you criticize it in any other context it is just silly, you're saying you can criticize a religious book in a scientific context and prove it is false, some other guy will claim he can prove that science is wrong when it says a spider bite "doesn't make you spiderman" in a comic book context. See where I'm getting? If you remove the context and criticize something in the context of something else EVERYTHING can be shown as false.
Wow. Just wow. So is anything about your newly-found religion actually true in reality?
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 2:56 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 2:33 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 2:32 pm)pool the matey Wrote: That doesn't make any sense then you'll have to subject all the movies, comics etc to scientific scrutiny even though they never claimed they can withstand scientific scrutiny.
OK, pool, what sort of evidence would you require to believe a claim that I have a mint Superman #1 in my possession?
Or, how about if someone claims Superman exists, and tells me the evidence can be found in Superman #1.
What does the claimaint have to do to make a convincing case that their claim is true?
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 3:02 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 3:03 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(November 9, 2017 at 2:54 pm)pool the matey Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 2:46 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: But harry potter doesn't claim to be true in the real world. The bible does, and makes claims about the real world. Herein lies the difference, pooley.
Actually it does, they call it the "muggles" or something I don't remember but the claim they make is in a fiction context (because Harry Potter only claims its fiction)
So, they aren't making any truth claims about reality then, are they?
Quote:The claims Bible makes is in a religious context so it's fine to criticize it in that context. If you criticize it in any other context it is just silly
The Bible makes truth claims, including scientific claims regarding biology and cosmology, and we absolutely can (and should) scrutinize those claims from a scientific perspective.
Quote:you're saying you can criticize a religious book in a scientific context and prove it is false, some other guy will claim he can prove that science is wrong when it says a spider bite "doesn't make you spiderman" in a comic book context. See where I'm getting?
WTF? You're either trolling, or very confused.
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RE: Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman
November 9, 2017 at 3:06 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 3:07 pm by ErGingerbreadMandude.)
(November 9, 2017 at 2:56 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 2:33 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: OK, pool, what sort of evidence would you require to believe a claim that I have a mint Superman #1 in my possession?
Or, how about if someone claims Superman exists, and tells me the evidence can be found in Superman #1.
What does the claimaint have to do to make a convincing case that their claim is true?
All I'm saying is context matters. When you say "superman exists" in what context do you mean? If you mean in a comic book context then all you have to do is scream "help me superman" and jump out of a window or top of a building or something and you'll get the proof you want. But if you're just telling me "superman exists" there is no context there, when a Christian says "God exists" he means that in a religious context and we know that within that context he is right.
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