(November 9, 2017 at 6:30 pm)Cod Wrote: As apposed to your crappy existence do you mean?

Quote:Having to endlessly tickle Gods balls for him.

(November 10, 2017 at 6:46 am)Mathilda Wrote: It's not so much that theists don't feel so responsible for their actions in that they are giving up responsibility for their actions to someone else.

They are partially outsourcing their decision making process by deliberately going to a service every Sunday to be preached to. And it's not just an hour or so of praise about how wonderful their god is, but preaching about what people should value (e.g. family values), about how to live their lives, about what people should hate (e.g. homosexuality, pornography, masturbation etc)

(November 10, 2017 at 8:57 am)alpha male Wrote:

(November 9, 2017 at 6:11 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: So, you're trying to somehow turn actual mental illness

And other things like bad relationships and divorce, alcohol and drug abuse, porn and masturbation instead of real relationships, etc.

Also, I don't subscribe to the notion that mental illness is always random. I've suffered from depression, and it was likely caused by poor life choices I made.

Quote:into a tu quoque towards people who are insulting towards your religion?

Into a counter example to someone who says that religion stunts mental growth.

(November 10, 2017 at 9:02 am)Aegon Wrote: I got to say I'm cringing/laughing at everybody describing their personal lives trying to prove themselves to a complete stranger.

(November 10, 2017 at 9:06 am)alpha male Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 6:46 am)Mathilda Wrote: It's not so much that theists don't feel so responsible for their actions in that they are giving up responsibility for their actions to someone else.

They are partially outsourcing their decision making process by deliberately going to a service every Sunday to be preached to. And it's not just an hour or so of praise about how wonderful their god is, but preaching about what people should value (e.g. family values), about how to live their lives, about what people should hate (e.g. homosexuality, pornography, masturbation etc)

All people partially outsource their decision making process by seeking advice.

Again, if atheists are all figuring out these gray issues for themselves, why do they seem to mostly have the same beliefs on any given issue?

Yes, there are some atheists here who are against abortion. Similarly, their are some Christian churches that accept openly LGBT members.

What's the difference? Why is it acceptable to partially outsource to atheist youtube videos, but not to a church?

(November 10, 2017 at 9:08 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 8:57 am)alpha male Wrote: And other things like bad relationships and divorce, alcohol and drug abuse, porn and masturbation instead of real relationships, etc.

Also, I don't subscribe to the notion that mental illness is always random. I've suffered from depression, and it was likely caused by poor life choices I made.


Into a counter example to someone who says that religion stunts mental growth.

I suffer from depression too so?

Do you assign your malady to the Satan Muslims claim screwing with your neurons causing your depression? No? GREAT, neither do I. 

I don't see any cosmic battle between a super hero vs a super villain causing my depression. I simply see that as a natural event due to genes and environmental input.

I also don't assign my depression to Lex Luther or Darth Vader either. But please don't sit there and try to claim only theists know what it is like to go through hard things.

(November 10, 2017 at 8:17 am)Mathilda Wrote:

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(November 9, 2017 at 8:20 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: I'll help you both;  When you see a topic that makes you feel uncomfortable because it asks questions you've refused to ever ask yourself that isn't provocation, It's discussion.

If you see a thread and the beginning line is something like "I think we can all agree Christians are all just morons" that is, in fact, provocation.

I hope this has been informative and I return you to your regularly scheduled martyrdom.

The OP was not intended to be insulting but I knew that many people would find it so. But it is something that I truly feel the more I think about religion and see just how fantastical and out of touch with reality it is. And I do think that it needs to be said. It's a case of the Emperor's new clothes. No one wants to make everyone embarrassed but after a while it gets too frustrating not to call out the horse shit for what it is. I did not mention the subject of an imaginary friend but I am glad that people did bring it up.

My thoughts first turned along these lines when I saw this picture

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It's not odd to think of children praying to an imaginary friend, but then you see the parents holding hands and praying and then the grandparents and my thoughts are, just grow up. Do they really think that their thought waves are emanating out of their heads like a wi-fi signal to be sent to a god who is reading each message? Or when I see a picture of my brother on Facebook laying hands on someone to faith heal them as if he has magical powers. Does he really think that he is channeling some magical power that can sense what is wrong and rearrange the atoms in the receiving body according to some unknown template? Answer: yes. And I've seen him become more and more immersed in the fantasy over the years since he converted.

I do get why people are insulted though. They'll know that they don't act childishly and they'll miss my point about religious indoctrination arresting personal development. To explain what I mean, compare how children solve problems. Something is bad so ban it. This is binary thinking and the religiously inclined do tend to suffer from binary religious thinking. But then you tell the child about why we can't ban the use of something like oil, because we need it to power our cars and produce plastic and they're at a loss and expect the adult to give them the answer. Much like the religiously indoctrinated want the answers given to them in a book or sermon without question.

Now compare this thinking to how people grow more aware about all the different issues the more worldly they become, how they can feel able to give more leeway to someone who they recognise as behaving badly because they are deeply troubled for example. In the same way, you never feel more clever or enlightened as you learn more about the world because it seems obvious once things are pointed out to you. instead, you just start to wonder why other people don't see it as well. Organised religion deliberately slows down this process.

Being childish isn't a problem. I suspect that we maintain the desire to play as adults so we play with our children and help them learn and to expand their mental capabilities. I've started playing Dungeons & Dragons myself and am having a real good time doing it. But the difference is that I don't think D&D is real. No matter how hard I try I know that I will never be able to summon up a magic missile in real life. Yet I have in the past read many occult books from people who think that they do practise magic, or out of body experiences. Praying and attempts at faith healing are exactly the same thing. It's giving yourself the illusion of control over your environment rather than actually facing up to the real world.

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(November 10, 2017 at 9:20 am)Brian37 Wrote: Nobody here is claiming all atheists agree 100% of the time. We most certainly are just as diverse in our opinions as theists, I don't think any atheist here is denying that.

(November 10, 2017 at 9:26 am)alpha male Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 9:20 am)Brian37 Wrote: Nobody here is claiming all atheists agree 100% of the time. We most certainly are just as diverse in our opinions as theists, I don't think any atheist here is denying that.

The point isn't the degree of diversity, which is low. The point is the high degree of agreement among atheists. It suggests that they're getting their moral judgments in part from shared outside sources, just as OP accuses theists of doing. They just go to different sources.