(November 14, 2017 at 6:20 pm)ignoramus Wrote: My relationship with my soul mate.... Aka wife

So "sacred" is equal to half of everything you own?

By this definition, "regarded with great respect and reverence by a particular religion, group, or individual", some things are sacred to me.

The music of Stravinsky, Bartok, King Crimson, Magma, Mahavshnu Orchestra, Chic Corea, Steve Coleman, Alan Holdsworth, Coltrane, and more, are sacred to me.

A couple of surf spots in the Maldives I've been to a few times, Rincon, Tunnels (on Kauai) and a few more, are sacred.

Free speech.

But none of them are sacred in any way, shape, or form, the same way as theists use the term.

(November 14, 2017 at 6:25 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(November 14, 2017 at 6:20 pm)ignoramus Wrote: My relationship with my soul mate.... Aka wife

So "sacred" is equal to half of everything you own?

Which is exactly what will happen if I don't treat the relationship as 'sacred'!

(November 14, 2017 at 6:00 pm)Khemikal Wrote: @Whatevs
Looks like a great place to grow onions, after you set fire to the groundcover and turned it under, ofc.  

Artichokes and garlic would do well here too.  Invasive weeds have run amok here, especially ice plant, and there is exposed PVC here and there from gawd only knows what prior use.  But I love walking up here with views out to the ocean.

It may not be pristine, but it's damned well sacred.  

I'd take a pretty dim view of anyone fucking with this.  

The closest I’ve ever come to experiencing what I imagine a religious experience feels like was several years ago (probably closer to 10 years) in Yellowstone National Park. It was about 10 at night, and we decided to park at one of the lots off the main road, just a few miles west of Old Faithful (there are a lot of other geyser areas and trails and whatnot in the area, with their own little parking lots).

It was just us, and a clear night. Pitch black, with absolutely no light pollution. That area of the country, in the northwest corner of Wyoming, has a lot of wide open spaces, so the majesty and grandeur of the universe was laid bare. I have never felt so small and vulnerable and insignificant. It was humbling and exhilarating.

It actually reaffirmed my atheism. I just couldn’t (and can’t) believe that, in a universe so vast it defies comprehension, that we are somehow the stars of the show. That it was purposely built for us to gawk at. I mean, in my little slice of the sky, there were more stars than I could count (the benefits of open skies and no light pollution... you can see far more than a handful of constellations at any one time), and that’s not even proportional to a grain of sand in the scheme of things.

So, I guess the universe and our planet are ‘sacred’ to me in a secular way. It really makes me wish that more people would stop what they’re doing, take a deep breath, and look up at the night sky. Because a lot of the shit we get hung up on really isn’t important, and 80 or so years of life really isn’t all that much. Especially when you don’t believe in another existence after this one.

(November 14, 2017 at 10:52 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: The closest I’ve ever come to experiencing what I imagine a religious experience feels like was several years ago (probably closer to 10 years) in Yellowstone National Park.  It was about 10 at night, and we decided to park at one of the lots off the main road, just a few miles west of Old Faithful (there are a lot of other geyser areas and trails and whatnot in the area, with their own little parking lots).

It was just us, and a clear night.  Pitch black, with absolutely no light pollution.  That area of the country, in the northwest corner of Wyoming, has a lot of wide open spaces, so the majesty and grandeur of the universe was laid bare.  I have never felt so small and vulnerable and insignificant.  It was humbling and exhilarating.

It actually reaffirmed my atheism.  I just couldn’t (and can’t) believe that, in a universe so vast it defies comprehension, that we are somehow the stars of the show.  That it was purposely built for us to gawk at.  I mean, in my little slice of the sky, there were more stars than I could count (the benefits of open skies and no light pollution... you can see far more than a handful of constellations at any one time), and that’s not even proportional to a grain of sand in the scheme of things.

So, I guess the universe and our planet are ‘sacred’ to me in a secular way.  It really makes me wish that more people would stop what they’re doing, take a deep breath, and look up at the night sky.  Because a lot of the shit we get hung up on really isn’t important, and 80 or so years of life really isn’t all that much.  Especially when you don’t believe in another existence after this one.

This! A thousand times this.
I had the same experience in Algeria some years ago, plenty miles from the nearest floodlight and no moon. And there in its magnificence was the milky way, and it brought to mind the most humbling realization ever. We are stardust.
Awe, yes. Sacred, fuck no! I have no use for that word.

Yay, Gahan Wilson!

Yes. And probably not too differently from how theists view it. I just don't clutter what I'm willing to devote my life to with dogma.

Great question by the way, Whateverist.

Thanks. I raised it in hopes it wasn't a baby we were throwing out with the bath. I liked Khem's remark early on that the sacred would have predated God and I agree with that. So it only seems fitting that it should survive the death of God.

So how is the sacred experienced differently by theists and atheists, and what might it have looked like before the idea of God arose?

Christians seem to have given the sacred subjecthood and turned every object and event in the world into His intention, accept where we're concerned. We've been entrusted with creative free will but not His omniscience or omnipotence. Trying to think within the mythos, I wonder what His purpose could have been for extending that part of His domain to us? Why have we been granted this franchise? Maybe we're trial godlings. Maybe monotheism isn't that much fun for the God forced to go it alone. Poor Guy is lonely or bored perhaps. For those who have centered the sacred in God there are questions to be answered regarding what He wants of us.

The sacred for those of us who have not invested it with subjecthood, it is still motivating and uplifting. One is inspired to act on its behalf. We value contact with whatever it may be. I can see where even the words "devotion" and "serve" can be applied. The difference I think is that the sacred we perceive does not command our actions, it only inspires them. If we seek to serve it we recognize how that is self serving in that it will allow us to maintain the connection.