The only time when I know what happiness is is when I'm happy. Most of my life I'm feeling like I don't even understand what it's supposed to be or feel like. I never get butterflies in my tummy or any physical sort of indication. To me happiness is just the conviction that I somehow know I'm happy, whatever that ever means, I guess I'm not suffering and I'm having fun but I don't feel empty or like everything is meaningless and grey and hopeless*. Like I normally do.

Most of the time I can't seem to make sense of what happiness is. And when I do feel happy it's non-physcial (well, I mean I can feel the same sensations as I do when I'm unhappy (even painful and uncomfortable ones) but somehow I am convinced I am happy). Most of the time I can't seem to even understand what 'happy' even means. Including now. I just know I sort of know what it is when I somehow convince myself that I feel it.

*

I don't know it this relates, but I find the quest for happiness overrated.
Trying to be happy means failure from the start. You can't try to be happy. Trying to be happy is proof that you are not happy. You can't chase happyness, it can only come to you. and the moment you ask yourself: 'am I happy', its a sign you are not.
As long as I'm just content, I don't worry about happyness. Our goal shouldn't be to strive for happiness, imho. Just try to remove and minimalize what actively makes you unhappy.

(November 16, 2017 at 6:45 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: I don't know it this relates, but I find the quest for happiness overrated.
Trying to be happy means failure from the start. You can't try to be happy. Trying to be happy is proof that you are not happy. You can't chase happyness, it can only come to you. and the moment you ask yourself: 'am I happy', its a sign you are not.
As long as I'm just content, I don't worry about happyness. Our goal shouldn't be to strive for happiness, imho. Just try to remove and minimalize what actively makes you unhappy.

That sounds like a catch22.

I think it's possible to be happy and able to realize this, and proclaim that. I don't see why this shouldn't possible.

(November 16, 2017 at 7:02 am)Sal Wrote:

(November 16, 2017 at 6:45 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: I don't know it this relates, but I find the quest for happiness overrated.
Trying to be happy means failure from the start. You can't try to be happy. Trying to be happy is proof that you are not happy. You can't chase happyness, it can only come to you. and the moment you ask yourself: 'am I happy', its a sign you are not.
As long as I'm just content, I don't worry about happyness. Our goal shouldn't be to strive for happiness, imho. Just try to remove and minimalize what actively makes you unhappy.

That sounds like a catch22.

I think it's possible to be happy and able to realize this, and proclaim that. I don't see why this shouldn't possible.

No, I'm not saying its impossible to be happy and know it.
I'm saying that asking yourself: am I happy is a sign you are not.
If you are content, you're not bound to put your own happiness into question.

Well the only time I seem to have any sense of what happiness actually is is when I know I am happy.

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(November 16, 2017 at 7:12 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: No, I'm not saying its impossible to be happy and know it.

My experience is the exact opposite. It's impossible to be happy and not know it. The OP is about how the only time I know what happiness is is when I know I am happy. And I seem to have no sense of what 'happy' is supposed to even mean when I'm unhappy.

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(November 16, 2017 at 6:45 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: Our goal shouldn't be to strive for happiness, imho. Just try to remove and minimalize what actively makes you unhappy.

But that's the same thing.

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(November 16, 2017 at 7:12 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: No, I'm not saying its impossible to be happy and know it.

I'm saying that asking yourself: am I happy is a sign you are not.

These two statements are very different. When we ask if we are happy that's a sign of uncertainty and not knowing that we are happy. Knowing that we are happy is the opposite of asking if we are. I agree that asking if I am happy is a sign that I am not but believing and feeling certain that I am happy is a sign that I really am happy because that conviction itself feels good.

The OP is about how the conviction that I'm happy when I hold that conviction seems to be the only sense of happiness I understand. When I don't hold that conviction I can't even make sense of happiness because physically my body feels the same. I can be experiencing pleasure and not know I'm happy and I can be experiencing pain and know I am happy. The physicality of it seems irrelevant so when people talk about happiness having a certain physiology behind it like butterflies in their stomach I have no idea what they are talking about. Even when I was in love it was always a very mental conceptual thing for me. It's about valuing someone rather than feeling anything physically.

Quote:If you are content, you're not bound to put your own happiness into question.

But contentment is definitely a poor substitute for happiness in my experience. I'm often content to settle for less and I'm far from happy. Content is more like comfort, and in my experience I'm at my happiest when I get out of my comfort zone and experience adventure rather than contentment. And I'm a huge introvert in many ways. After all most of the time I do stay in my comfort zone, and I am miserable.

(November 16, 2017 at 6:45 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: I don't know it this relates, but I find the quest for happiness overrated.
Trying to be happy means failure from the start. You can't try to be happy. Trying to be happy is proof that you are not happy. You can't chase happyness, it can only come to you. and the moment you ask yourself: 'am I happy', its a sign you are not.
As long as I'm just content, I don't worry about happyness. Our goal shouldn't be to strive for happiness, imho. Just try to remove and minimalize what actively makes you unhappy.

Yes and no.

I'd agree that far too much of the world chases impossible utopias, expect others and themselves to be super human, in that context yea, that kind of "happiness" is counter productive, because when they don't meet those expectations, that causes depression, family problems all sorts of things. 

But to say you cant be happy sometimes, smile, laugh, have fun, no. That is perfectly fine and healthy. Nobody is ever happy 100% every waking minute of their lives from birth to death, but it is certainly ok to value what you have and share that smile with others.

So yea, I agree, it isn't an either or thing, but trying to minimize the stress is the key.

The way I see it is... happiness is an emotion. I just suck at recognizing it most of the time but maybe I only recognize it when I have it. I wish I knew HOW I recognize it though. I don't seem to have any of the physiological symptoms that most people do. I smile just as much when I'm miserable . . . smiling seems more like a social thing than an emotional thing for me. I rarely know when I'm happy but maybe I'm rarely happy.

Emotions seem entirely mental to me.

(November 16, 2017 at 7:13 am)Hammy Wrote:

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(November 16, 2017 at 6:45 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: Our goal shouldn't be to strive for happiness, imho. Just try to remove and minimalize what actively makes you unhappy.

But that's the same thing.

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Quote:If you are content, you're not bound to put your own happiness into question.

But contentment is definitely a poor substitute for happiness in my experience. I'm often content to settle for less and I'm far from happy. Content is more like comfort, and in my experience I'm at my happiest when I get out of my comfort zone and experience adventure rather than contentment. And I'm a huge introvert in many ways. After all most of the time I do stay in my comfort zone, and I am miserable.

I understand why they'd come across as the same thing. But it's a fundamentally different approach. And its all in the approach. The mindset.
I don't look at happyness as a basic right given to us as humans. I don't view it as something to pursue, if that makes sense. I don't expect it, just because I happen to exist. I just get rid of the shit that's around me because I can, and that is plenty for me, personally.
I just find that we are told too much to be happy. By commercials, this individualistic culture I grew up in telling me that my own desires matter most in life, by self-help guru's and religions and scam artists (oops, tautology). I feel the world would get along much better if we weren't so damn set on our own happiness. It's not something god-given and its not something you can just acquire or define.
Yet we are sold this idea that we should be happy, that we can be happy and that if we are not; then who is to blame? Other people are happy, right? Other people seem to make it in this rat-race of life and come out smiling, right? The failure must be mine, right? I can't let people see I'm not fine. I'll just try harder to be happy and overcome these failures and in the meantime I'll match my empty smile to theirs and when someone asks how are you, I'll answer with 'I'm fine, how are you?' because no-one wants to hear I'm not fine. I shouldn't be 'not fine'.

No. No thanks. No, I'll have none of that.
I'll just live my life in quiet and not do things I don't want to do. I won't reach and fall and fail. I'll just keep my spot and make myself comfortable.

But hey, that's just my take :p

(November 16, 2017 at 7:35 am)Hammy Wrote: The way I see it is... happiness is an emotion. I just suck at recognizing it most of the time but maybe I only recognize it when I have it. I wish I knew HOW I recognize it though. I don't seem to have any of the physiological symptoms that most people do. I smile just as much when I'm miserable . . . smiling seems more like a social thing than an emotional thing for me. I rarely know when I'm happy but maybe I'm rarely happy.

Emotions seem entirely mental to me.

Emotions are normal, it is a part of our evolutionary fight or flight survival. But since evolution isn't about everyone being Spock, nor about having perfect bodies, our brains and bodies are not perfect. 

It's funny you should mention this. Today on the local news morning show, the lady anchor doing the weather dropped her remote live on camera, everyone started laughing, she couldn't stop laughing so tossed back less than 30 seconds from trying to start. That is a healthy acceptance of being human.

Having said that, this same station has a really fucking obnoxious deep voiced reporter who ALWAYS has a smile on his face and in his voice. Every time I see this asshole I think,"There is no fucking way anyone is that happy all the time." He just comes across as phony. But, there is a reason he has a job, that crap sells add space, but I have to change the channel every time I hear his voice.

I guess the point is be yourself, don't worry about what you think you should feel, there is no right way to live life except don't physically harm others, outside that, the rest is life.

@Mr Obvious

I think you are overcomplicating and expecting too much from happiness. Happiness is neither being 100% happy nor is the absence of unhappiness any different to the presence of happiness. Happiness is just an emotion and if you're not not happy then you're happy. I don't think happiness is anything special but I do think it's elusive. It's hard to make sense of when we aren't sure what we have is good enough to convince ourselves that we are happy.