In Quran, it says God is the best reward and that is the only reward I am concerned about, and all beauty is a manifestation of his beauty.

(November 18, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Cod Wrote: Cod takes note of the above.

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(November 17, 2017 at 7:54 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Challenge accepted. 

PS - being theist doesn't make someone unreasonable, contrary to some claims around here that we're all mentally ill.

Okay, lets begin.. think about this CL, think back to your childhood, did you ever eat an soil in your garden like I did?

Well... yes, as a matter of fact. Why?

(November 18, 2017 at 6:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 5:11 pm)Cod Wrote: Cod takes note of the above.

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Okay, lets begin.. think about this CL, think back to your childhood, did you ever eat an soil in your garden like I did?

Well... yes, as a matter of fact. Why?

Well ...We have something in common then, we both ate soil and we are still both here. That proves that despite our differing beliefs we can both brush our teeth and move on.

(November 18, 2017 at 6:29 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 1:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yeah, Christianity is very diverse in certain details. But at the end of the day, the fundamental principles of Christianity are mostly still the same throughout most denominations worldwide (unless we're talking about a fringe group like the Westboros, etc).

So long as Christians live out the corporal works of mercy and try to follow the teachings of Christ, the smaller details like whether the OT is allegory vs historical fact, who goes to Heaven, etc, doesn't bother me.

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I do appreciate your open mind and tolerant worldview of others, very much.  Yet, you say this (my bold) after literally disagreeing with nearly everything AM said about his beliefs.  You differ on who may get into heaven, what heaven is, how people attain states of grace and/or reach heaven.  You essentially differ on what is important both in this life and in the next.  Yet you still maintain that "the fundamental principles of Christianity are mostly still the same throughout most denominations worldwide". 

I'm not angry or anything, just utterly puzzled how you can disagree on such extremely important, and not even nitpicky points of faith.  But broad, and again, important points, and yet still say you are fundamentally the same. 

To me, it seems very clear that your religion is as different from his as it is from Shinto or Wicca.  You have nothing in common except you both claim your faith dates back to a man with the same name.  Everything else seems pretty different.  Just sharing this from my outsider POV.

Yeah, me and AM have different beliefs regarding how someone gets to Heaven or Hell.

But see, I don't see this as an important, fundamental thing because it is a judgement that is God's to make. So while we can have certain opinions on how it'll go down, we both agree that this is God's call and not ours. It doesn't change the way he and I practice our faith or our principles.

Same with the opinion of what Heaven and Hell will be like - whether they are physical places or a state of being. What exactly it'll be like isn't a fundamental part of Christianity, only that we believe they exist and that one is good and the other is bad.

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(November 18, 2017 at 6:55 pm)Cod Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 6:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well... yes, as a matter of fact. Why?

Well ...We have something in common then, we both ate soil and we are still both here. That proves that despite our differing beliefs we can both brush our teeth and move on.

Can't say I disagree with that. Same with taking a dump and then wiping our butt I suppose. How does this have anything to do with anything?

(November 18, 2017 at 6:55 pm)Cod Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 6:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well... yes, as a matter of fact. Why?

Well ...We have something in common then, we both ate soil and we are still both here. That proves that despite our differing beliefs we can both brush our teeth and move on.

I have a feeling this is going to take a very long time.

(November 18, 2017 at 6:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Can't say I disagree with that. Same with taking a dump and then wiping our butt I suppose. How does this have anything to do with anything?

But you see that even though we were children on different continents, we did the same thing.
That shows me that soil exists not only for the growing of fruitage, but for the bondage of soil eating people who meet randomly years later.

You must agree that what I'm saying to you makes sense.

(November 18, 2017 at 6:55 pm)Cod Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 6:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well... yes, as a matter of fact. Why?

Well ...We have something in common then, we both ate soil and we are still both here. That proves that despite our differing beliefs we can both brush our teeth and move on.

IANMTU, I recall being a little kid and eating dirt.

As an adult, my pica is restricted to chewing ice cubes (much to the horror of my dentist).


I don't think they had correlated it yet when I was a kid, but I was also anemic in that era and IIRC, that can trigger a pica.

(November 18, 2017 at 6:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 6:29 pm)Aroura Wrote: I do appreciate your open mind and tolerant worldview of others, very much.  Yet, you say this (my bold) after literally disagreeing with nearly everything AM said about his beliefs.  You differ on who may get into heaven, what heaven is, how people attain states of grace and/or reach heaven.  You essentially differ on what is important both in this life and in the next.  Yet you still maintain that "the fundamental principles of Christianity are mostly still the same throughout most denominations worldwide". 

I'm not angry or anything, just utterly puzzled how you can disagree on such extremely important, and not even nitpicky points of faith.  But broad, and again, important points, and yet still say you are fundamentally the same. 

To me, it seems very clear that your religion is as different from his as it is from Shinto or Wicca.  You have nothing in common except you both claim your faith dates back to a man with the same name.  Everything else seems pretty different.  Just sharing this from my outsider POV.

Yeah, me and AM have different beliefs regarding how someone gets to Heaven or Hell.

But see, I don't see this as an important, fundamental thing because it is a judgement that is God's to make. So while we can have certain opinions on how it'll go down, we both agree that this is God's call and not ours. It doesn't change the way he and I practice our faith or our principles.

Same with the opinion of what Heaven and Hell will be like - whether they are physical places or a state of being. What exactly it'll be like isn't a fundamental part of Christianity, only that we believe they exist and that one is good and the other is bad.

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(November 18, 2017 at 6:55 pm)Cod Wrote: Well ...We have something in common then, we both ate soil and we are still both here. That proves that despite our differing beliefs we can both brush our teeth and move on.

Can't say I disagree with that. Same with taking a dump and then wiping our butt I suppose. How does this have anything to do with anything?

When I was a practicing Catholic, if memory serves, there was nothing more important or fundamental than learning about my personal relationship with God, the relationship of mankind with God, and trying to understand what God wants of us. That is literally the very basis, the most basic foundation, of Christian faith.

This is what you are disagreeing on. Your notions of both what god wants of people, and how you relate to god....thats way more fundamental to faith than details like if there is a heaven or hell. It's not just how or who gets into heaven.

Yeah, you agree on some parts of some of the details, but not on the very nature of God and man and how the two relate. Seriously, tell me what is more fundamental to your faith than that?

This is, again, just from my perspective. I think this is one of our agree to disagree moments, lol.

(November 18, 2017 at 7:40 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 6:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yeah, me and MA have different beliefs regarding how someone gets to Heaven or Hell.

But see, I don't see this as an important, fundamental thing because it is a judgement that is God's to make. So while we can have certain opinions on how it'll go down, we both agree that this is God's call and not ours. It doesn't change the way he and I practice our faith or our principles.

Same with the opinion of what Heaven and Hell will be like - whether they are physical places or a state of being. What exactly it'll be like isn't a fundamental part of Christianity, only that we believe they exist and that one is good and the other is bad.

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Can't say I disagree with that. Same with taking a dump and then wiping our butt I suppose. How does this have anything to do with anything?

When I was a practicing Catholic, if memory serves, there was nothing more important or fundamental than learning about my personal relationship with God, the relationship of mankind with God, and trying to understand what God wants of us. That is literally the very basis, the most basic foundation, of Christian faith.

This is what you are disagreeing on. Your notions of both what god wants of people, and how you relate to god....thats way more fundamental to faith than details like if there is a heaven or hell. It's not just how or who gets into heaven.

Yeah, you agree on some parts of some of the details, but not on the very nature of God and man and how the two relate. Seriously, tell me what is more fundamental to your faith than that?

This is, again, just from my perspective. I think this is one of our agree to disagree moments, lol.

I think MA and I both agree for the most part on what God wants of us, the principles He wants us to live by, etc. We just don't agree on how strict the "judgement" will be for the afterlife.

I don't see that as a major fundamental difference, personally.

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(November 18, 2017 at 7:34 pm)Cod Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 6:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Can't say I disagree with that. Same with taking a dump and then wiping our butt I suppose. How does this have anything to do with anything?

But you see that even though we were children on different continents, we did the same thing.
That shows me that soil exists not only for the growing of fruitage, but for the bondage of soil eating people who meet randomly years later.

You must agree that what I'm saying to you makes sense.

Kind of. Nonetheless though, not everyone eats soil. But we do all poop and fart, and the entirety that is humanity can connect in that sense. And no one is excluded that way. It's all part of a much larger picture.

Why would god make it so difficult for all Christians to be on the same page, especially regarding the issue of salvation? I mean, doesn't he know eternal souls are at stake here?