(December 15, 2017 at 7:52 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 11:05 am)AFTT47 Wrote: Because it would be the embarrassment to end all embarrassments - far worse even then electing Donald Trump as president. The standing of the US would take a tremendous hit and would probably never recover. The country would no longer be considered a world leader. The former USSR and China would no longer be in our shadow. Those countries would be able to step up and take a position of greater prominence on the world stage.

That's why.

Politicians are members of a clique.  They all tend to support each others' lies so that their own lies won't get exposed.  

A clique involving leaders of rival countries - each with his/her own agenda? Quite an imagination you've got there. If rival leaders were capable of that kind of collusion, we would have that world-order you conspiracy nuts are always fearing with the cabal of corrupt leaders at the top of a nightmare empire where individuals have no rights.

Do you even bother to think these things through?

(December 15, 2017 at 11:05 am)AFTT47 Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 9:21 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Why would those countries discredit the US's claims?

Because it would be the embarrassment to end all embarrassments - far worse even then electing Donald

Let’s not get carried away with the hyperbole.

(December 15, 2017 at 7:52 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 11:05 am)AFTT47 Wrote: Because it would be the embarrassment to end all embarrassments - far worse even then electing Donald Trump as president. The standing of the US would take a tremendous hit and would probably never recover. The country would no longer be considered a world leader. The former USSR and China would no longer be in our shadow. Those countries would be able to step up and take a position of greater prominence on the world stage.

That's why.

Politicians are members of a clique.  They all tend to support each others' lies so that their own lies won't get exposed.  As I said, you might live to see reality if China does try to send men to the moon.  Chances are they will do it before we do since Trump and the Repubs are cutting the budget and federal revenues.  

If we have already been there then we have all of the blueprints needed for an easy update using today's technology.  So we should be able to build all of the equipment needed without any hassles and be on the moon within 730 days if we start this Monday.  Even you could run such a program if you had the authority and money.

Well we do have all of the blueprints  (with caveats which those who know anything about the Apollo program will be aware of)

But let us consider a hypothetical. Suppose you want a new computer. Would you rush out to buy an ENIAC?

At the end of the Apollo program, the conventional wisdom was the shuttle was the wave of the future, conventional disposable rockets like the Saturn series were a dead end.  Hence all the tooling for manufacturing the Saturn series rockets were sold for scrap as a way to keep budget pressure from causing the space agency to backslide from state of the art shuttle to the proven but believed to be obsolete Apollo infrastructure.    Thus it was intentionally made impossible to restart production of any major components of the Saturn rockets without a huge investment to rebuild the industrial base.

However, by the year 2002,  when the shuttle had two catastrophic fatal accidents under its belt and proved nowhere near as economical to operate as the old Saturn hardware, much less as spectacularly economical as in the claims made for the shuttle in the mid 1970s, interest fell back onto a new conventional heavy lift disposable rocket in the same class as the Saturn 5.  When reviewing what was learned from the original Saturn 5 program and whether any design and material from Saturn 5 can be resurrected for use, the J-2 LOX Engined used in stage 2 and 3 of Saturn 5 was judged to have been a sufficiently good design even by early 2000s standards that it was determined production of the engine should be resumed for use in new NASA heavy lift rocket upperstage.  However tooling for continued production had to be made from scratch, as original tooling were gone.   So it was decided to take the opportunity to leverage 40 years of progress in manufacturing technology to build better tooling that could in turn make many of the engine’s components better and lighter.  For example instead of laboriously brazing all the cooling channels to the rocket’s exhaust bell, cooling channels are now directly milled into the exhaust bell wall with CNC milling machine.

However, mission creep set in.  Once it was determined New tooling could make some components better, it was decided to explore whether the design of the engine could be revised to take better advantage of the better components.   Eventually the new version, J-2S, was so improved that it shared virtually nothing with the original j-2 engine from the Apollo era, from specification, to performance, to any  shared components.  It is now a whole new engine requiring a whole new production process.

(December 16, 2017 at 5:54 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 7:52 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Politicians are members of a clique.  They all tend to support each others' lies so that their own lies won't get exposed.  As I said, you might live to see reality if China does try to send men to the moon.  Chances are they will do it before we do since Trump and the Repubs are cutting the budget and federal revenues.  

If we have already been there then we have all of the blueprints needed for an easy update using today's technology.  So we should be able to build all of the equipment needed without any hassles and be on the moon within 730 days if we start this Monday.  Even you could run such a program if you had the authority and money.

Well we do have all of the blueprints  (with caveats which those who know anything about the Apollo program will be aware of)

But let us consider a hypothetical. Suppose you want a new computer. Would you rush out to buy an ENIAC?

As I said, if we have the blueprints then it's easy to build the hardware (the rocket and landing module and so forth) and upgrade the software with modern computers.  So we could land in 730 days from Monday morning.  Got it?

(December 16, 2017 at 8:13 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(December 16, 2017 at 5:54 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Well we do have all of the blueprints  (with caveats which those who know anything about the Apollo program will be aware of)

But let us consider a hypothetical. Suppose you want a new computer. Would you rush out to buy an ENIAC?

As I said, if we have the blueprints then it's easy to build the hardware (the rocket and landing module and so forth) and upgrade the software with modern computers.  So we could land in 730 days from Monday morning.  Got it?

NASA can’t correct the spelling on an already written contract in 730 days.

(December 16, 2017 at 8:13 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(December 16, 2017 at 5:54 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Well we do have all of the blueprints  (with caveats which those who know anything about the Apollo program will be aware of)

But let us consider a hypothetical. Suppose you want a new computer. Would you rush out to buy an ENIAC?

As I said, if we have the blueprints then it's easy to build the hardware (the rocket and landing module and so forth) and upgrade the software with modern computers.  So we could land in 730 days from Monday morning.  Got it?

Nope, it is not easy at all. The infrastructure to build a Saturn V does not exist today. If you think it does, feel free to point it right out. It took close to half a million people to get Apollo of the ground, Start your recruiting drive now. Do you really hold the delusion that such enormous projects happen on a whim?

And yes. The blueprints do exist. Why you would advocate 1960's technology for a return to the moon is beyond weird.

(December 17, 2017 at 9:48 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(December 16, 2017 at 8:13 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: As I said, if we have the blueprints then it's easy to build the hardware (the rocket and landing module and so forth) and upgrade the software with modern computers.  So we could land in 730 days from Monday morning.  Got it?

Nope, it is not easy at all. The infrastructure to build a Saturn V does not exist today. If you think it does, feel free to point it right out. It took close to half a million people to get Apollo of the ground, Start your recruiting drive now. Do you really hold the delusion that such enormous projects happen on a whim?

And yes. The blueprints do exist. Why you would advocate 1960's technology for a return to the moon is beyond weird.

Well, according to you the 1960s technology was good enough to make severe trips to the moon so why do you need to invent a whole new infrastructure for a return in 2019?  Get it done!  Hell, have the Chinese or the North Koreans build the damn thing.    Or was the whole project just a scam?

(December 17, 2017 at 8:34 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(December 17, 2017 at 9:48 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Nope, it is not easy at all. The infrastructure to build a Saturn V does not exist today. If you think it does, feel free to point it right out. It took close to half a million people to get Apollo of the ground, Start your recruiting drive now. Do you really hold the delusion that such enormous projects happen on a whim?

And yes. The blueprints do exist. Why you would advocate 1960's technology for a return to the moon is beyond weird.

Well, according to you the 1960s technology was good enough to make severe trips to the moon so why do you need to invent a whole new infrastructure for a return in 2019?  Get it done!  Hell, have the Chinese or the North Koreans build the damn thing.    Or was the whole project just a scam?

What part of, we don't need 1960s technology, do you not understand? And again I'll ask you, if you think the Apollo project was a scam then tell me why you believe so. Did we land on the moon, yes or no?

(December 17, 2017 at 9:29 pm)Succubus Wrote:

(December 17, 2017 at 8:34 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Well, according to you the 1960s technology was good enough to make severe trips to the moon so why do you need to invent a whole new infrastructure for a return in 2019?  Get it done!  Hell, have the Chinese or the North Koreans build the damn thing.    Or was the whole project just a scam?

What part of, we don't need 1960s technology, do you not understand? And again I'll ask you, if you think the Apollo project was a scam then tell me why you believe so. Did we land on the moon, yes or no?

They were faked.  http://listverse.com/2012/12/28/10-reaso...be-a-hoax/

We'll see if the Chinese make it there and back.