(December 27, 2017 at 4:45 pm)Drich Wrote: Direct line to God. All questions answered, wisdom given and problems worked out together. Never alone.

So why is it that you do not have one of those?

(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: The snake has many heads, or socks if you like.
In a few forums you are only ever talking to one creep. But I treat the words as if they are coming from different individuals and not the one person or group of people. It won't be long before you are talking with yourself on this forum (panel).

Look, friend. If you are insinuating that I am a sock, could you do me a favor? Please make a clear accusation.

Something like: "You VulcanLogician, are a sock of X." or "Hammy is the sock of X." Otherwise, could you admit that you have no reason to accuse anyone of this? It demonstrates a lack of scruples to make unfounded accusations. I'm not asking for your cloak. I'm not asking you to walk a mile with me. (Not that you would do either of those for me or anyone else you disagree with.) But I am asking that you either put your accusation into clear words or redact it. Can you do this?

I've been active here for much longer than you have, and I don't get the impression that anyone is a sock. If you're going to suggest that someone is, don't be a coward about it. If I thought you were a sock, I'd tell you directly to your face (as much as one can do so on the internet). Please extend the same courtesy to me.

Starhunter Wrote:As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

You can drop out of the debate if you wish, but the debate will go on without you. There are plenty of other honest theists on this site who realize that I'm not trying to trump them-- I'm actually looking for common ground. I would never say to you, "God doesn't exist. End of argument." But if I did, would I have really said anything conclusive? If I said that to you, you'd have no reason to take it seriously. Jus' sayin'...

Quote:Humanism was taught by Satan in the garden or Eden, "ye shalll be as gods, knowing good and evil." It was a supposition that people had the brains to do without God.
The second demo of humanism came with Cain who murdered his brother Abel.

Citation, please. Does it say this in the Bible? Did someone say it in your church and you believed it? Are you just making it up? Please explain how you got to the conclusion.


Edit: Or you could just not bring the sock thing up again. That'll work. I just want a civil conversation. Please?

I spoke to my Grandmother about that Topic. And she told me that she doesnt really think about if its true or not. For her being Christian just have two things to it:

1. She has a community who are always nice and help her in bad situations.

2. It just makes her feel better to "know" that it doesnt end with death. It is easy for a young man to say that he isnt afraid of death but it is very hard for an old lady like my grandmother is.

These things do not apply to Christianity as a whole i know but i still hope I could help you.

(December 27, 2017 at 4:45 pm)Drich Wrote: Direct line to God. All questions answered, wisdom given and problems worked out together. Never alone.

How do you distinguish that from the voice of your own imagination?  There's a technique described in Napoleon Hill's book Think and Grow Rich where you create a "mastermind group" of role models (e.g. an inventor might elect to put Leonardo, Edison and Tesla in his group) and then mentally discuss things with them.  I've done similar things with purportedly fictional characters, to profoundly positive effect in my own life.

Quote:...I am asking you to "work" on the behalf of the land owner right now. Will you take up the Cross of Jesus and have your sins forgiven now?

I doubt that I would ever do such a thing.  The whole scenario strikes me as batshit barmy to the max.

(December 27, 2017 at 12:27 pm)Astreja Wrote: Best thing about being the goddess of chocolate -- I was barely at My desk for 5 minutes when a co-worker came by with a bowl full of offerings.  The good stuff, too.  Nom nom nom!

You KNOW that I am willing to worship you my goddess! I AM A MAN! Chocolate is for GIRLS! That's why they call it HER-SHE!

(December 28, 2017 at 1:06 am)Haipule Wrote:

(December 27, 2017 at 12:27 pm)Astreja Wrote: Best thing about being the goddess of chocolate -- I was barely at My desk for 5 minutes when a co-worker came by with a bowl full of offerings.  The good stuff, too.  Nom nom nom!

You KNOW that I am willing to worship you my goddess! I AM A MAN! Chocolate is for GIRLS! That's why they call it HER-SHE!

Hey, no problem!  I will cheerfully take your share of the chocolate if you don't want it.  

(December 24, 2017 at 7:08 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: I'm not a Christian but I like a challenge( basicaly that is why I cam here and to know atheists).
Firstly lets go with the story. It is clear that the story is speaking about heaven( the penny) . Now the point is , why should you be bothered if someone who came to religion lately than you did if the reward is heaven? I mean , there is no reward bigger than heaven. The Bible is saying also that every sin is equal in the eyes of God , so basically from that view point you are as much as a sinner that the lately arrived.

The benefits of Christianity depend from person to person, it can help you have a better life quality. But I think the whole atheist/theist things is based on a missunderstanding. I think it gets cleare by the next thing:
All sins are equal in the eyes of God. Althoug somewhere in the bible says that you need to believe in order to be saved , I think the poin of the story it was not that only those who believe are saved but to make it clear that not-believing in the Son of God is a sin. And you can solve this with one statement " Forgive them because they don't know what they are doing", now in that situation, Jesus asks for forgivens for all people including the Romans that didn't believed in him nor God. So it doesn't matter if you are an atheist or theist.

While the idea of generic deism that skips a specific God and religion, I don't see even that as credible.

Why wait most of the 13.8 billion years to only make us on 1 rock isolated and full of danger and potential death. Seems like a lot of waste to me.

It makes much more sense to me that the desire to want even a generic god is really nothing more than a projection of our own qualities.

I forgot which ancient Greek said it, but something like, "If horses had gods their gods would look like horses."

Three books, if you have not read.

1. The New Atheism, Victor Stenger, says that science DOES have something to say about God/god claims. Also points out that our species morality is not coming from old mythology but is actually in us. 

2. God The Failed Hypothesis, Victor Stenger, more picking apart the bad logic of why the gap answer fails.

3. The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins, explains how evolution from a neurological aspect caused us as a species to come up with bad answers. His best description makes God belief as the same type of misfire that a moth would have, "the moth mistaking the light bulb for the natural moonlight".

I see all God/god/deity/super natural claims as nothing more than our species gullibility and wishful thinking in a strive for survival. It may create groups, which do increase the odds of survival, but that group can base their beliefs on very false ideas.

I do not see our species important to the planet knowing in its 4 billion year history, it has had 5 mass extinctions as to which what we see now is only a mere 1% of life that managed to survive. I also find it absurd to think an estimated 2 trillion galaxies were made just so we could stare at them but for most of our 200k history as a species, lived in ignorance and still cant get a human out of our solar system.

Again, human narcissism, and fear of being finite, as a projection of our own qualities, that is what I see. Gap answers. Most humans get sold the religion of their parents long before they can formulate adult critical thinking skills.

(December 28, 2017 at 10:13 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 24, 2017 at 7:08 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: I'm not a Christian but I like a challenge( basicaly that is why I cam here and to know atheists).
Firstly lets go with the story. It is clear that the story is speaking about heaven( the penny) . Now the point is , why should you be bothered if someone who came to religion lately than you did if the reward is heaven? I mean , there is no reward bigger than heaven. The Bible is saying also that every sin is equal in the eyes of God , so basically from that view point you are as much as a sinner that the lately arrived.

The benefits of Christianity depend from person to person, it can help you have a better life quality. But I think the whole atheist/theist things is based on a missunderstanding. I think it gets cleare by the next thing:
All sins are equal in the eyes of God. Althoug somewhere in the bible says that you need to believe in order to be saved , I think the poin of the story it was not that only those who believe are saved but to make it clear that not-believing in the Son of God is a sin. And you can solve this with one statement " Forgive them because they don't know what they are doing", now in that situation, Jesus asks for forgivens for all people including the Romans that didn't believed in him nor God. So it doesn't matter if you are an atheist or theist.

While the idea of generic deism that skips a specific God and religion, I don't see even that as credible.

Why wait most of the 13.8 billion years to only make us on 1 rock isolated and full of danger and potential death. Seems like a lot of waste to me.

It makes much more sense to me that the desire to want even a generic god is really nothing more than a projection of our own qualities.

I forgot which ancient Greek said it, but something like, "If horses had gods their gods would look like horses."

Three books, if you have not read.

1. The New Atheism, Victor Stenger, says that science DOES have something to say about God/god claims. Also points out that our species morality is not coming from old mythology but is actually in us. 

2. God The Failed Hypothesis, Victor Stenger, more picking apart the bad logic of why the gap answer fails.

3. The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins, explains how evolution from a neurological aspect caused us as a species to come up with bad answers. His best description makes God belief as the same type of misfire that a moth would have, "the moth mistaking the light bulb for the natural moonlight".

I see all God/god/deity/super natural claims as nothing more than our species gullibility and wishful thinking in a strive for survival. It may create groups, which do increase the odds of survival, but that group can base their beliefs on very false ideas.

I do not see our species important to the planet knowing in its 4 billion year history, it has had 5 mass extinctions as to which what we see now is only a mere 1% of life that managed to survive. I also find it absurd to think an estimated 2 trillion galaxies were made just so we could stare at them but for most of our 200k history as a species, lived in ignorance and still cant get a human out of our solar system.

Again, human narcissism, and fear of being finite, as a projection of our own qualities, that is what I see. Gap answers. Most humans get sold the religion of their parents long before they can formulate adult critical thinking skills.

Well debating Gods existence may not lead anywhere, either of us will stick to his convinction.
Note that I see religion as an interpretion of an individual that concluded the existence of God
But I could argue that religion was benefical to the individual in times that survival was on the top of the list and there wasn't much room for uncertainty and it is still beneficall for a lot of people today , people who find solitude and peace in it. The problems occured when people missunderstood the concept and its porpouse , wich was to make our lives easier and happier not to persecute and torture.

As for the after-life , for me and you it may be a narcissistic desire but for other people who don't get to live their lives , a second chance is fair. And even if it may not appear that we have a porpouse , there is no reason to not create one and maybe we can evolve so that we could avoid the next mass extinction.

Edit: If we keep imposing our convictions how different we are from the Church ? I think the time has come to encourage people to think on their own.

DELETED

Looks like Starhunter has Banned himself. Now if we can just get the bible to fuck itself.

But seriously Starhunter, I'm not aware of any reason why you would be be banned. Hope you're doing alright in your personal life.