(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

The bible cannot substantiate itself. 
So not the end of the "argument" after all.

(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

(writes on a scrap of paper "Astreja K. Odinsd­­óttir, the goddess of the Vernal Equinox, chocolate, punctuation, and Random Equipment Malfunctions, is more powerful than the god described in the Bible.")

Also self-substantiating scripture.  Worship Me, mortal.  

(December 26, 2017 at 6:30 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

(writes on a scrap of paper "Astreja K. Odinsd­­óttir, the goddess of the Vernal Equinox, chocolate, punctuation, and Random Equipment Malfunctions, is more powerful than the god described in the Bible.")

Also self-substantiating scripture.  Worship Me, mortal.  

Pencils in Astreja worship in for Fridays... Shakes head, "So many gods, so little time, though the chocolate benefits are undeniable"

(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

You really are a dumbass, aren't you. The bible doesn't substantiate jack shit. You're nothing more than another bible worshiping idiot.

(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: And as far as humanism is concerned, I am not talking about it as a recognizable fashion, but as a principle. Humanism was taught by Satan in the garden or Eden, "ye shalll be as gods, knowing good and evil." It was a supposition that people had the brains to do without God.
The second demo of humanism came with Cain who murdered his brother Abel.

What ? How would you know that God didn't intended to do without him? Humanism is about people nothing more nothing less, it has nothing to do with God.
Edit: It is not about beeing gods it is about empathy.

(December 26, 2017 at 6:30 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

(writes on a scrap of paper "Astreja K. Odinsd­­óttir, the goddess of the Vernal Equinox, chocolate, punctuation, and Random Equipment Malfunctions, is more powerful than the god described in the Bible.")

Also self-substantiating scripture.  Worship Me, mortal.  

Hey everyone!!! Astreja IS a god! She's got Odin in her last name! Look!

Curtsies in deep admiration and respect.

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(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

There is a problem with that logic. See below: 

Best thing about being the goddess of chocolate -- I was barely at My desk for 5 minutes when a co-worker came by with a bowl full of offerings. The good stuff, too. Nom nom nom!

(December 27, 2017 at 12:27 pm)Astreja Wrote: Best thing about being the goddess of chocolate -- I was barely at My desk for 5 minutes when a co-worker came by with a bowl full of offerings.  The good stuff, too.  Nom nom nom!

Being a deity clearly pays.  now i wonder if i could be the first person ever in the whole of history  to profit from religious belief....

(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote:

(December 26, 2017 at 4:52 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Have you met Catholic Lady yet?



You claim that critical thinking is "the great humanistic pill that nearly all will swallow" but critical thinking predates humanism by quite a few centuries. Furthermore it is possible to be a critical thinker without being a humanist (See Friedrich Nietzsche or H.L. Mencken).

One could argue that critical thinking existed before him, but the process was first put into coherent form by Socrates around 400 B.C. and then expounded upon by Plato. These two thinkers assumed a God figure, but (at the same time) they thought it was beneficial to ask others to substantiate claims. They were not humanists either. If critical thinking is some kind of "humanist conspiracy" it has been taking shape for quite a long time and has inspired Christians and atheists alike in their pursuit of the truth. If you are going to relate critical thinking to humanism, would you please explain yourself?

Asking you to substantiate the bible is not a trick question. If you actually managed to substantiate it (even in some small degree) I'm sure that Cyberman would admit that you had a point. His asking you to produce such substantiation is completely fair. You would do the same thing in his position.

If someone approached you with an outrageous claim -- like "You stole my car"-- you would demand that they substantiate it. It would be your right to make such a demand, wouldn't it? (I'm not sure this is where Cyberman was going, but it's my best guess.)

What if a Hindu approached you and said that Krishna is the Lord of the cosmos? Would you just believe him? Neither would I. What if, when you denied his claim and told him you believed the Bible, he said, "Oh, that Christian pill that many more will swallow..."? Would you take him seriously? Think about our perspective in regards to the statements you are making. If a Hindu made the sort of statements YOU are making, except in regards to Hinduism, would you be convinced? What if he pointed to a copy of the Bhagavad Gita and said that it substantiates itself? Would that convince you in the slightest?

You and all atheists have something in common. We completely agree on the credibility of the Bhagavad Gita. Now that we have found some common ground, please explain why we should regard the bible any differently than the Gita? Why do you believe what you believe? 

In many (but not all) cases, people believe stuff simply because they were told to. Do you believe the bible simply because you were told to by other people? Or is there another reason? What is that reason?

The snake has many heads, or socks if you like.
In a few forums you are only ever talking to one creep. But I treat the words as if they are coming from different individuals and not the one person or group of people. It won't be long before you are talking with yourself on this forum (panel). But it is essential that all be given their final opportunity to make a decision about the truth, so that their fate may be sealed. The term wicked is more specifially aimed at those who pretend to be ignorant of the truth and war against it. It is not aimed at those who have had the misfortune of never knowing any better, whose lives are influenced for evil through the first.

As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

Surely you jest (the part I enlarged)?  However the bible can go fuck itself.

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(December 27, 2017 at 8:43 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(December 26, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Starhunter Wrote: As far as substantiation is concerned, the Bible can substantiate itself. End of argument.

You really are a dumbass, aren't you.  The bible doesn't substantiate jack shit.  You're nothing more than another bible worshiping idiot.

Ah, I see I've been ninja'd more than once.  I appreciate the balanced way that you expressed it but I think you may have been a little more light handed that the poster merited.

(December 24, 2017 at 1:57 am)Dnte Wrote: I want to ask christians, what are the benefits of being a christian while being alive?

Direct line to God. All questions answered, wisdom given and problems worked out together. Never alone.

Quote:All I hear is what is going to happen AFTER you die.

all garbage compared to what is available in this life.

Quote:That you go to heaven and that God will not throw you into the pits of hell. BUT I want to know, what are the benefits of being a christian while being alive. And I want benefits that don't aply to muslims, buddhists, atheists, etc.

Peace contentment and access to God.

Quote:Matthew 20
1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

I could turn christian after being an old man who has lived a worldly life.

Only if you think God is an idiot.
Where in the parble did it say provision was made who heard the call in the morning but waited to the end of the day to work? No each time the land owner hired he hired everyone he could find when he went out. Do you see the highlated portion? He has those late in life why are you not working, what was their response? We decided to wait till the last miniute because our pay would be the same as those ho worked all day? No! They were not working because upto that moment no one has asked them to work. For that reason Jesus made their pay the same.

Quote:I'd repent of my sins, turn to God and put my soul into Jesus' heart before dieing and I'd be the first! I'd even go first than a christian person who has lived a life of christian perfection for decades. Does that make any sense?

no. Because I am asking you to "work" on the behalf of the land owner right now. Will you take up the Cross of Jesus and have your sins forgiven now?

Quote:You could argue. "Well, you never know when you're going to die, you might die unexpectedly before having the chance of repenting and asking for God's mercy."

Here's the thing sport God is not an idiot.. your version of God might be as you seem to be very proud of this idea thinking in the history of man no one has thought about this. Here's the problem a faith without works... Is dead. remember the parable the guys at the end of the day still work in the faith hoping the land owner would pay them a fair wage. The point is that they worked in what they believe.

Quote:That doesn't make sense either. If an 80 year old man who has lived a christian life of perfection, for some reason, decides to abandon God and become an atheist. Why does he have to go to hell? Why would an 80 year old man who has lived a life of sin, but repented and turned to God before dieing, go to heaven instead? Why does the moment we die has to define our whole lives?

who said it does? My bible says we do not have a say in who is christian and who is not. our only say is in who heeds the call and who does not.

Quote:Why does christianity revolve around death?

because for those who's religious experience with God is through faith death is the justification. There are other forms of Christianity that teach how to access God in this life.

Quote:What about this life? A life is in constant evolution, it has many facets. It can't be defined by a moment in time. But christians say that what you believe in just before dieing defines your whole destiny. That is absurd and does not make sense at all.

The christian idea of life is to finish well. however that does not mean just because we don't finish first we goto Hell. It is the all about what we did with what we were given. If we were given a level 10 understanding of God then by that measure our action should reflect whatever a level 10 person should have. however if we were given level 100 then much more is expected, and if we were given level 1 then far less is expected. There is no set bar. it is based on what you have been given to do and what you accomplish over your whole life time. Those at the beginning of the day have a level 100 understanding of God while those who come in at the end of day have a level 1, even so all came when they were called.

Quote:Anyway. Why should I be a christian?

you probably shouldnt. because punishment is far greater for those who know and try to deceive God that just the run of the mill smuck

Quote:What are the benefits that would make my life better than an atheist's?

I could list hundreds of little things but I'd be bragging. they all come down to direct access to God. Imagine playing a RPG for the first time (life) then playing an RPG with a offical walk  thru gamming guide.

Quote:If there's a God and if he wants people to believe in him, there must be a benefit, because otherwise, being a christian would be pointless. Heaven is just a promise, there's no scientific proof that it exists and even religious people don't know for sure what heaven is all about.

If you want to know what heaven is all about bout then spend your time seeking info on Heaven and ask God to show you. one way or another he will show you.

Quote:I can be a better person as an atheist.

Being a better person is not the goal here sport. being saved is. one has nothing to do with the other.

Quote: I don't feel I have to believe in God to have a good and moral life.

Again God and 'morality' have nothing to do with each other.

Quote:If there's no God, there are simply no benefits of being a christian because he does not exist and your belief system is a LIE. Death is just death and a person's moral system has to make society a better place. I don't see why God or a religious belief system would be necessary in order to achieve that.

...and if death is not death and God is indeed accessible in this life?