Don't worry Dripshit.  We see you as lacking.

(January 8, 2018 at 10:13 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Bestiality? That's a sin too lol.

Bestiality might be a sin but it's legal in America.

I always thought the ABC's of xtianity were to Annoy, Bore and Continue, but maybe that's just for apologetics and missionary work?

(January 8, 2018 at 2:57 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: What's up with this?

It's the first step in the ABCs of becoming a Christian (Admit, Believe, Confess) but I always saw it as a rather unhealthy way to reflect upon one's misdeeds. Personally, I think something like "I made a mistake" or "That was terrible of me to do" is a much more beneficial as it is directed toward the action itself. It doesn't make the assumption: I did a bad thing, therefore I'm a bad person. 

What does it really even mean? 

Admit that I'm capable of moral transgressions? Sure, I'll admit that. But that doesn't mean I am anything, does it? 

Does it mean admit that I've commited moral transgressions in the past? I'll admit that too. And while you're at it, I'll probably fail in my moral responsibilities in the future too. I admit it.


Theists: Have I admitted in this post that I'm a sinner? Or is there more to it than that? If so, what's the difference?

Admitting you are a sinner (which you have) has no consequence/effect other than to be the prerequisite step toward asking Jesus to become your Lord/Savior and asking for forgiveness with the end goal being having those same sins wiped clean. This 'having those sins wiped clean' has three interrelated effects: 1) personal peace now (mitigating some portion of guilty feelings), 2) a lifestyle/heart change--where you strive to avoid sinning and instead pursue the fruits of being a spirit-filled Christian (see note), and 3) after your death when you are called to account for your sins. If you have genuinely accepted Jesus' gift, then you are not called to account for your sins--they have been paid for. 

As with most Christian doctrines, carving out a component for discussion is insufficient. You need the context of the larger doctrine to discover the meaning because systematic theology is a framework of inter-relating ideas. For example, you have touched on in your brief post the Doctrine of Man, the Doctrine of Sin, and the Doctrine of Salvation. 

NOTE: The Fruit of the Holy Spirit is a biblical term that sums up nine attributes of a person or community living in accord with the Holy Spirit according to the Epistle to the Galatians: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control."[2] The fruits is contrasted with the works of the flesh which immediately precede it in the chapter. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_Holy_Spirit)

(January 8, 2018 at 2:57 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: What's up with this?

It's the first step in the ABCs of becoming a Christian (Admit, Believe, Confess) but I always saw it as a rather unhealthy way to reflect upon one's misdeeds. Personally, I think something like "I made a mistake" or "That was terrible of me to do" is a much more beneficial as it is directed toward the action itself. It doesn't make the assumption: I did a bad thing, therefore I'm a bad person. 

What does it really even mean? 

Admit that I'm capable of moral transgressions? Sure, I'll admit that. But that doesn't mean I am anything, does it? 

Does it mean admit that I've commited moral transgressions in the past? I'll admit that too. And while you're at it, I'll probably fail in my moral responsibilities in the future too. I admit it.


Theists: Have I admitted in this post that I'm a sinner? Or is there more to it than that? If so, what's the difference?

Atheists: What do you make of all this "admit you're a sinner" stuff? What do you think motivates it? Is it a good, bad, or ugly way to reflect on moral transgressions?

The only positive spin I can give it is to equate it with recognizing our fragile position as rational agents who exist in electro chemical bags of flesh subject to eons of conditioning which call forth responses we can only sometimes control.    Our bodies have a will of their own.  If we tried to entirely subdue the will of the flesh, we would most likely snuff out much of our enjoyment of life with it.  But when living with others in a similar predicament whose happiness is part of our own, it just gets really really complicated.  So perhaps sin and forgiveness is about accepting our failures and maintaining hope that we can do better going forward?

Dividing the story we tell ourselves about this into a benevolent God who cares about us (and everyone else) who will judge but also forgive us might be one way to deal with our predicament. It gets around the difficulty of playing both parts ourselves -sinner and benevolent god- which makes it harder to forgive since why didn't we, in our capacity of benevolent god, just do better in the first place. Atheists need better tales to tell about why we fuck up in spite of taking ultimate responsibility upon ourselves alone.

Nah, it's just about how god told you not to pull your pud., and you pulled it.  Now beg for mercy, pud pulling filth.  Ha, you wont get any, because you were a hater!

(January 8, 2018 at 9:50 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(January 8, 2018 at 9:46 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: 3. No

I think it says in the bible that they are. Something about looking at a woman is committing adultery in one's heart.

Catholics have an expanded play book.

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(January 8, 2018 at 9:57 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 8, 2018 at 9:50 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: I think it says in the bible that they are. Something about looking at a woman is committing adultery in one's heart.

The urge itself, the sexual attraction, is not a sin because it is involuntary. It becomes a sin when you proceed to gawk at her and fantasize about having sex with her. That is an action.

Then why did God give me Free Gawk?  Oh why???

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(January 8, 2018 at 10:11 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: I know what he means... I'm from the Appalachians.

Wait .. I thought you all only went for corn holing city folk passing through in canoes.  Which is it?

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(January 8, 2018 at 2:06 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Nah, it's just about how god told you not to pull your pud., and you pulled it.  Now beg for mercy, pud pulling filth.  Ha, you wont get any, because you were a hater!

I'm pretty sure you can pull it so long as none of it gets on the ground.  God is a neat freak apparently.  So always perform facials over a towel or with some other sanctifying barrier to protect God's holy ground.

(January 8, 2018 at 4:57 am)Longhorn Wrote: Well if you believe you’re a bad person the shame and the guilt will make you more susceptible to the riders’ of the high horses suggestions on how to not be a piece of shit. It’s a psychological control tool essentially. Because if you’re so bad and flawed who are you to question what the church says?

At its core at least, that’s the dynamic.

No it is not healthy. For me at least it was a lot of fuel to the fire of my own issues with self esteem.

Personally I choose to put aside any emotional aspect of the situation and learn from my mistake after making it right with whomever I hurt.

This.  They deny you your self-esteem and the right to make amends via your own efforts, then chain you to the back of a pickup truck called "salvation" and take you for a drag.

(January 8, 2018 at 1:55 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(January 8, 2018 at 2:57 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: What's up with this?

It's the first step in the ABCs of becoming a Christian (Admit, Believe, Confess) but I always saw it as a rather unhealthy way to reflect upon one's misdeeds. Personally, I think something like "I made a mistake" or "That was terrible of me to do" is a much more beneficial as it is directed toward the action itself. It doesn't make the assumption: I did a bad thing, therefore I'm a bad person. 

What does it really even mean? 

Admit that I'm capable of moral transgressions? Sure, I'll admit that. But that doesn't mean I am anything, does it? 

Does it mean admit that I've commited moral transgressions in the past? I'll admit that too. And while you're at it, I'll probably fail in my moral responsibilities in the future too. I admit it.


Theists: Have I admitted in this post that I'm a sinner? Or is there more to it than that? If so, what's the difference?

Admitting you are a sinner (which you have) has no consequence/effect other than to be the prerequisite step toward asking Jesus to become your Lord/Savior and asking for forgiveness with the end goal being having those same sins wiped clean. 

Steve, I didn't read where Vulcandude asked about how he can win extra benefits from your lord and savior either now or in an afterlife.  It sounds like you do think he has 'admitted his sins'.  For anyone not pursuing the pie in the sky of an after life, alleviation of self condemnation is really enough.  

Sounds like you should be good to go, Vulcanguy.

(January 8, 2018 at 2:57 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: What's up with this?

It's the first step in the ABCs of becoming a Christian (Admit, Believe, Confess) but I always saw it as a rather unhealthy way to reflect upon one's misdeeds. Personally, I think something like "I made a mistake" or "That was terrible of me to do" is a much more beneficial as it is directed toward the action itself. It doesn't make the assumption: I did a bad thing, therefore I'm a bad person. 

What does it really even mean? 

Admit that I'm capable of moral transgressions? Sure, I'll admit that. But that doesn't mean I am anything, does it? 

Does it mean admit that I've commited moral transgressions in the past? I'll admit that too. And while you're at it, I'll probably fail in my moral responsibilities in the future too. I admit it.


Theists: Have I admitted in this post that I'm a sinner? Or is there more to it than that? If so, what's the difference?

Atheists: What do you make of all this "admit you're a sinner" stuff? What do you think motivates it? Is it a good, bad, or ugly way to reflect on moral transgressions?

I don't see where there is an issue, with admitting the truth. However I do see where you may be wary of this being done in a harmful way.

I would agree a lot with Steve's description, it's just a part of the process.

However I'm interested, in your statement that you think it is harmful. I don't understand why. Would you see my doctor telling me, that I'm fat and need to lose weight as being harmful? What if I also acknowledge that I am short and funny looking? As I said, I think there is a wrong way to go about this, but it's not necessarily wrong. It seems that one of the first steps for AA is to admit that you are an alcoholic and that you need help. I think that the purpose is more akin to this, or my doctor telling me I'm fat, rather than bullying, or shaming. Or at least it should be.