(January 16, 2018 at 1:48 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote: Adults have a responsibility to themselves to do what they want. 

That sounds disturbingly close to  "if you didn't want to get raped you shouldn't dress like a slut "

Nope. Definitely not the same shit. Not even close.

(January 16, 2018 at 1:23 am)Tizheruk Wrote: No but if a women says she is uncomfortable and shows clear non verbal signs she's not interested in fucking . But a man continues to pressure for sex and aggressively touches after said discomfort is expressed . That does not require a telepath .

Unless someone told me they wanted to stop or they weren't enjoying the sex... I'd have no clue that a woman wasn't enjoying the sex. I'd just assume they were. Obviously women usually moan in pleasure when they're enjoying sex but I'd probably be too focused on the sex to notice if that was missing. As far as I'm concerned "I'm not enjoying this" or "stop" are what you say if you're not enjoying something or want them to stop. Indeed... no telepathy required. But some of us are too socially awkward to speak social awkwardness-ese. But even if you're not enjoying something or feel uncomfortable that doesn't necessarily mean you want the person to stop. "Stop" definitely does mean you want the person to stop. The word "stop" would be what I would be listening out for if someone wants me to stop something. That's kind of the point of the word.

(January 16, 2018 at 1:28 am)Tizheruk Wrote: If someone is autistic then it should be known beforehand so a greater emphasis on boundaries can be applied.And as i said it was not just him awkward.

I agree with this. Although the problem is people aren't always diagnosed until later.

(January 16, 2018 at 2:05 am)Hammy Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 1:23 am)Tizheruk Wrote: No but if a women says she is uncomfortable and shows clear non verbal signs she's not interested in fucking . But a man continues to pressure for sex and aggressively touches after said discomfort is expressed . That does not require a telepath .

Unless someone told me they wanted to stop or they weren't enjoying the sex... I'd have no clue that a woman wasn't enjoying the sex. I'd just assume they were. Obviously women usually moan in pleasure when they're enjoying sex but I'd probably be too focused on the sex to notice if that was missing. As far as I'm concerned "I'm not enjoying this" or "stop" are what you say if you're not enjoying something or want them to stop. Indeed... no telepathy required. But some of us are too socially awkward to speak social awkwardness-ese. But even if you're not enjoying something or feel uncomfortable that doesn't necessarily mean you want the person to stop. "Stop" definitely does mean you want the person to stop. The word "stop" would be what I would be listening out for if someone wants me to stop something. That's kind of the point of the word.

(January 16, 2018 at 1:28 am)Tizheruk Wrote: If someone is autistic then it should be known beforehand so a greater emphasis on boundaries can be applied.And as i said it was not just him awkward.

I agree with this. Although the problem is people aren't always diagnosed until later.

But you should none the less stop . I can't say it more then that . While it's true autistics are not always diagnosed. By the time your sexual active your social awkwardness something you are likely more then aware of .

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(January 16, 2018 at 1:57 am)J a c k Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 1:48 am)Tizheruk Wrote: That sounds disturbingly close to  "if you didn't want to get raped you shouldn't dress like a slut "

Nope. Definitely not the same shit. Not even close.

Really how so ?

People who use that argument often frame it in the idea of personal responsibility . "along with why didn't you close your legs" or "Or why didn't you leave the bathroom if he was groping you "

Tiz, I’m not “blaming” anyone. There are situations where bad sex happens and we don’t actually have to blame anyone. I’m simply saying she had outs, which is more than actual assault victims can say. (This girl didn’t even call it assault, so this is not a condemnation against her).

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Don’t compare my argument to people who blame actual rape victims because of their clothes. That’s a disgusting, histrionic non-parallel. Piss off with that nonsense. You’re a man talking to actual abuse sufferers and you pose like some defender of women. At this point, you’re virtue signaling while putting us in league with those who shame us most. No.

(January 16, 2018 at 2:21 am)Shell B Wrote: Tiz, I’m not “blaming” anyone. There are situations where bad sex happens and we don’t actually have to blame anyone. I’m simply saying she had outs, which is more than actual assault victims can say. (This girl didn’t even call it assault, so this is not a condemnation against her).

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Don’t compare my argument to people who blame actual rape victims because of their clothes. That’s a disgusting, histrionic non-parallel. Piss off with that nonsense. You’re a man talking to actual abuse sufferers and you pose like some defender of women. At this point, you’re virtue signaling while putting us in league with those who shame us most. No.

And i'm saying this seems like more then just bad sex . And she should not have needed "outs" . He should have gotten it into his thick head that she was not interested in fucking him . And whether she calls it sexual assault is neither her nor there .

Why should i not compare it if that's how it sounds to me? . It's only both if the argument is false. If so then will withdraw it . Otherwise it's comparing two truly vile points. It's only nonsense if it's wrong. Yup i'm a man does my gender factor in or are you demanding i "stay in my own lane " And i'm sorry for your abuse but that does not invalidate what i have said . Nope i am a ally of women but they don't need my defense. I would not have stayed on this thread this long if i were not. Nope i'm pointing out an argument that sounded disturbingly like the kind of arguments they make . Whether you intended it to mean that i tend to think not . Whether you believe it i think so even less so .

(January 16, 2018 at 12:38 am)Tizheruk Wrote: Once again your reading skills are lacking .

I always think it's funny when people on forums say this. It can never be that they didn't express themselves clearly enough.

(January 16, 2018 at 2:58 am)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 12:38 am)Tizheruk Wrote: Once again your reading skills are lacking .

I always think it's funny when people on forums say this. It can never be that they didn't express themselves clearly enough.

In this case this is not so . I challenge you to point out were reading what i wrote was unclear .

(January 16, 2018 at 2:05 am)Hammy Wrote: Unless someone told me they wanted to stop or they weren't enjoying the sex... I'd have no clue that a woman wasn't enjoying the sex. I'd just assume they were. Obviously women usually moan in pleasure when they're enjoying sex but I'd probably be too focused on the sex to notice if that was missing. As far as I'm concerned "I'm not enjoying this" or "stop" are what you say if you're not enjoying something or want them to stop. Indeed... no telepathy required. But some of us are too socially awkward to speak social awkwardness-ese. But even if you're not enjoying something or feel uncomfortable that doesn't necessarily mean you want the person to stop. "Stop" definitely does mean you want the person to stop. The word "stop" would be what I would be listening out for if someone wants me to stop something. That's kind of the point of the word.

I've never had any issues understanding when my attentions were unwanted. "I'm uncomfortable" is one of those points, for me. When someone tells me my actions are discomfiting them, I will review my actions and make appropriate changes. That includes stopping in order to perform that reassessment. In all likelihood, that stoppage will be permanent simply because I am uncomfortable with the idea of making a woman uncomfortable in these sorts of cases.

Put shortly, if I sense a boundary, I pull up short of it. If I feel I've crossed one, I apologize and back up. I understand that people can and do signal intentions (or their absence) well before they vocalize them.

The guy here should have been paying more attention, in my opinion. He should have had more simple consideration for her feelings. The fact that he didn't have that consideration makes him a douchebag creep in my book.

Oh good. I should probably run to a journalist and tell them all about the guys I’d been with while I was still in the closet. How rapey of them to not notice I was a lesbian even though I showed no signs of it! I mean, were they more empathetic, they would’ve noticed how not into them I was, but I guess that’s not a crime.

Yeah dude sounds like a total creep and a weirdo. In this situation, presented as it is, there was no assault though. Just a lot of awkwardness and bad communication. He was a weirdo and she should’ve been clear. I understand the pressure of being nice or being persuaded a lot but really, as an adult, you have to be able to stand up for yourself. It’s a shame that’s a lesson she didn’t learn in a less unsettling way.

I do feel for the girl because it wasn’t pleasant but come on, running your mouth to the media as revenge for... awkward bad sex? That’s a dick move.

It's creepy but not sexual assault. But, I would say when a woman starts talking about feeling forced, it's time to take step back.