The other apologist has told us, explicitly, that sin and immorality are not the same thing. Not paying a parking ticket on time is a mistake..not a sin.

What say you? Is that crazy methodist nutter wrong?

(January 17, 2018 at 7:45 pm)Khemikal Wrote: -another fine example of when when churchspeak makes people sound stupid. Quietly, that's one of the worst parts of religion. It's a personal debasement..and so it's intimate..except that it's doing it to everyone, because the religion of shaming is pro-misc-u-ous.

It's taboos are an expression of the adherents supposed or very real deviancies.

I'm just over here wondering why they think they're gonna get right with god if they can't get right without him. Obviously aint right if they need that sort of push in the first place..and even our resident christian apologist has indicated that the jesus bump isn't exactly emptying the prisons.

No doubt shaming is an evil of religion, but you'll shame yourself regardless of any religious influence, so where does that come from?
You're not religious are you?
If shame can be generated by yourself, you have only yourself to blame, but
because you are into justifying yourself, you find it relieving to blame it on religion.

Guilt is the internal compass.

Shame is social disapproval.

(January 17, 2018 at 7:48 pm)Banned Wrote:

(January 17, 2018 at 7:40 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: The moment you refer to atheism as a religion is the moment you lose any credibility you MAY have had.

And since "sin" is a religious concept, most atheists don't recognise it.

Everyone makes mistakes, and no atheists will say different.

When we talk about mistakes we are talking morality. And since that term is out of the question with atheists, they cannot admit making mistakes.

Well, that's a load.

Mistakes are nothing to do with morality.

As for the last sentence, it becomes even clearer that you're not qualified to speak on our behalf.

(January 17, 2018 at 8:00 pm)Banned Wrote: No doubt shaming is an evil of religion, but you'll shame yourself regardless of any religious influence, so where does that come from?
You're not religious are you?
If shame can be generated by yourself, you have only yourself to blame, but
because you are into justifying yourself, you find it relieving to blame it on religion.

You do realize that I don't blame religion or gods for any of the particulars of my mind..least of all any shame I feel?  I figure that should be strongly implied in my atheism..but since you seem to be unclear, you're welcome.

When I say things like "wheres your god now, huh, and where was he when he blew that one!"...I'm not...actually, telling you that I think a "god" ever blew anything. I'm humoring your affliction. When I say "religion shames people"..that;s my polite way of saying you terrible bastards are shameful shaming shamers*.

*this is as polite as I get, ask around.

(January 17, 2018 at 7:55 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The other apologist has told us, explicitly, that sin and immorality are not the same thing. Not paying a parking ticket on time is a mistake..not a sin.

What say you? Is that crazy methodist nutter wrong?

Sin only covers morality and nothing else.
Morality involves knowledge of what you are doing.
The drug addict commits murder while under the influence, he or she is not entirely to blame for what the drug caused them to do, but they are guilty of the neglect and self indulgence that led them to take drugs in the first place.
But then if the person was a victim of serious abuse to begin with, that caused them to become involved in drugs, then, in God's court, the charge of murder will be on those who abused this person.

If you don't know hwy parking meters exist, and you fail to pay, it is no sin, but of you understand the system of authority and for no better reason you ignore it, it is a sin of neglect.
If you have every good reason to avoid paying the meter, there is no sin.

But if your reasoning comes from a delusion, which comes as a result of habitually neglecting duty, then it is a sin.

Sin is all about the heart and mind - intentions, motives and our personal trends.

God judges after the heart, inner motives, opportunities had, life's circumstances etc, which more than often, end up placing the sinner in a position of being an innocent victim of sin.

Because being such a victim destroys the ability to love, trust and obey God, no one is left unattended by the love and discipline caused by God through life and every other means possible. A discipline which does not encroach on personal freedom. Love cannot be forced or manipulated, which is why miracles will not accomplish the job.

Jesus healed thousands, and many of them were in the mob that jeered for his death - figure that one out.

Gee, two christians, two diametrically opposed positions - and ofc the possibility that you're both wrong and talking straight out of your pious asses?

Decisions, decisions.

I zoned out the jesus fanfic.

(January 17, 2018 at 8:03 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(January 17, 2018 at 7:48 pm)Banned Wrote: When we talk about mistakes we are talking morality. And since that term is out of the question with atheists, they cannot admit making mistakes.

Well, that's a load.

Mistakes are nothing to do with morality.

As for the last sentence, it becomes even clearer that you're not qualified to speak on our behalf.

If mistakes have nothing to do with morality, then it is no big deal to admit them, is it?
In fact, if there is nothing wrong with making a mistake, then why even bother apologizing?
If you have to apologize for something which isn't fundamentally immoral, then you are in the company of petty narcissists.
So then would atheists only feel comfortable admitting amoral mistakes?
Because they want to fit in with the petty narcissists which rule their world?

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(January 17, 2018 at 8:21 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Gee, two christians, two diametrically opposed positions - and ofc the possibility that you're both wrong and talking straight out of your pious asses?

Decisions, decisions.

I zoned out the jesus fanfic.

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Did not I tell you that Satan has incubated himself in the religions of the world?
Then you would expect contradictions and confusion, and expect that such nonsense is blamed on the Bible, the very book which they are supposed be be true to.

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(January 17, 2018 at 8:02 pm)Astreja Wrote: Guilt is the internal compass.

Shame is social disapproval.

Well said.

Where does guilt come from?
Isn't it a basic fear of survival?

(January 17, 2018 at 8:46 pm)Banned Wrote: Did not I tell you that Satan has incubated himself in the religions of the world?
Then you would expect contradictions and confusion, and expect that such nonsense is blamed on the Bible, the very book which they are supposed be be true to.

What's that about goblins and things that go bump in the night, again?  The devil....psh, don't get me started on that infantile phobia. Shame isn't directly about survival, it's about status and image, and the damage you can do to ether. Some of us are just genuinely decent people - rather than trash human beings..... who feel bad when we think we've done something that would cause others to rightly look at us askew - even if no one will ever find out. We don't need to terrify our children, or ourselves, with stories of gremlins to effect that.

(January 15, 2018 at 1:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I interpret Original Sin as the fact that none of us are perfectly good. Basically we all have the tendency to sin, and we all will if given the chance. It started with the first humans and will continue throughout all of humanity. That's how it was explained to me in school anyway.

The more literal approach of "inheritance" and "being responsible for Adam and Eve eating a forbiden apple" is quite old school these days.

By what authority are you given leave to reinterpret church dogma?