(January 23, 2018 at 4:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Call me when anyone reveals Hillary Clintons network of secrets and shady stuff, lol?

It's not as if there weren't non-wingnut conspiracist reasons not to vote for her......I cant even......fucking a-Murica.

I'm not talking about things like pizza gate or conspiracy theories of that kind. How about the collusion between her and Debbie Wasserman Shultz that was in her emails, including one that decided to go after Bernie Sanders as not religious enough. Or that Bill Clinton wanted to give speeches in thw Congo for enough money. The money taken by the Clinton foundation from corrupt governments, etc etc etc.

That's what I'm talking about. It's funny when people talk about the Russian interference, but mostly they just revealed true stuff that Hillary Clinton actually did. If you don't think she had a network of secrets then hacking her emails is a total non-issue anyway.

(January 23, 2018 at 4:08 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(January 23, 2018 at 3:57 pm)A Theist Wrote: Maybe if the media would stop bungling their Russian collusion stories more people would give their reporting some credibility. The media doesn't like Trump and they always seem to be in a rush to crucify him....and they fuck up.

OK, but ignoring those instances, do you at least agree that the possibility of Russian interference in our election is a bad thing. Note that I'm not inferring Trump had anything to do with it, let's not complicate things. Russian interference in our election process: bad for democracy and bad for the US, yes?

Yeah, I agree. I think it's fair to say that most people believe there's a strong possibility that Russia was trying to interfere in our elections. I believe they tried. It's known that they tried interfering in the elections of other countries. What strikes me is that they didn't forcibly hack their way into the DNC and Clinton emails. They gained access through a simple phishing scheme. They were basically invited in.  Even with that, there's no evidence that the Russians were able to change the outcome of the election. Hillary lost it all by herself.

But, from what I see, Russian interference in our elections isn't what the media is reporting. That's just a by story to their trying to indict Trump of colluding with Russia. They've messed up so many times that the more important story of Russian interference has stayed in the shadows.

Whew, I sure am glad that Trump defeated Bill Clinton!   

Just a moment ago you were poo pooing russian collusion because america does bad shit, but now accepting money from corrupt officials is a singularly bad thing?  That we deserve to know..and hey, maybe a person shouldn;t be in office if some association they belong to or are connected with does it?

Well....let's run with that then............and take a look at a few real estate deals.

A foreign government hacking the emails of a us citizen, and particularly a politician..and for political purposes no less..is espionage. That makes it an issue no matter who it is or what is, or isn't..in those emails. If we'd hacked our presidents Russian BFF's emails..he'd have annexed a small western european country in retaliation by now, lol.

(January 23, 2018 at 4:45 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Whew, I sure am glad that Trump defeated Bill Clinton!   

Just a moment ago you were poo pooing russian collusion because america does bad shit, but now accepting money from corrupt officials is a singularly bad thing?  That we deserve to know..and hey, maybe a person shouldn;t be in office if some association they belong to or are connected with does it?

Well....let's run with that then............and take a look at a few real estate deals.

A foreign government hacking the emails of a us citizen, and particularly a politician..and for political purposes..is espionage., That makes it an issue no matter who it is or what is, or isn;t..in those emails.

Do actually know what was in Hillary Clinton's emails? I mean if you think it's just harmless stuff or stuff we as Americans don't have a right to know about, then it doesn't matter if the Russians hacked them, because there was nothing shady to reveal.

Of course that's not the case, and I don't really know how you get around that, or that Bill Clinton openly colluded with Boris Yetsin to interfere in Russian democracy and bragged about it publically. I'll just keep repeating that one I guess.

(January 23, 2018 at 4:50 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Do actually know what was in Hillary Clinton's emails? I mean if you think it's just harmless stuff or stuff we as Americans don't have a right to know about,  then it doesn't matter if the Russians hacked them, because there was nothing shady to reveal.

Of course that's not the case, and I don't really know how you get around that, or that Bill Clinton openly colluded with Boris Yetsin to interfere in Russian democracy and bragged about it publically.  I'll just keep repeating that one I guess.

I simply note that what was or wasn't in those emails is unlikely to match your average trump voters recollection of what was in those emails. They became a weaponized product of espionage, by a hostile foreign state..under sanctions.

The traitorous wing of american politics lapped that shit up, and I imagine that real cold warriors are turning in their graves right now. When the kremlin hands you stolen documents...it's not for -your- benefit.

(January 23, 2018 at 4:54 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(January 23, 2018 at 4:50 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Do actually know what was in Hillary Clinton's emails? I mean if you think it's just harmless stuff or stuff we as Americans don't have a right to know about,  then it doesn't matter if the Russians hacked them, because there was nothing shady to reveal.

Of course that's not the case, and I don't really know how you get around that, or that Bill Clinton openly colluded with Boris Yetsin to interfere in Russian democracy and bragged about it publically.  I'll just keep repeating that one I guess.

I simply note that what was or wasn't in those emails is unlikely to match your average trump voters recollection of what was in those emails.

True enough, but don't go pretending that's what I'm saying, or go pretending that I voted for Trump for that matter.

(Or pretend that the Clintons did interfere with Russian democracy. We might not have Putin if we had helped Russia have a democracy they could believe in, rather than interfere to get our guy in. What goes around.......)

I think that, between you and I, we can have a little fun.  Mostly because I know you're not a committed trumpster and you know I'm not a hillary humper.

Though..I do think that the business with shultz relies on partisan mythmaking...and the endless crimes of bill clinton are a complete non-sequitur.  Nor will I accept that the american people should have to pay the piper for fuckery from decades ago, that..because Bill Clinton (there he is again, that crafty fucker) contributed to the rise of putin..we have to be content with having his greasy shaft all the way up our political apparatus today.

That's not how any of that works. It's not.

(January 23, 2018 at 4:44 pm)A Theist Wrote: What strikes me is that they didn't forcibly hack their way into the DNC and Clinton emails. They gained access through a simple phishing scheme. They were basically invited in.

If by "invited in" you mean some person within the DNC opened a viral attachment or inadvertently gave away their credentials, then sure. Phishing schemes aren't direct hacking attacks, but they are still pretty effective at gaining access. What the Russians did after they gained access is certainly forcible hacking. If the Russians had a person within the DNC, they wouldn't have needed the phishing scheme in the first place.

Quote:Even with that, there's no evidence that the Russians were able to change the outcome of the election.

No evidence yet, but the investigation is still underway. In the absence of actual vote tampering, the question of whether the outcome of the election was changed by Russian interference is difficult, if not impossible to answer. One could argue that the release of the DNC emails irreparably damaged Clinton, that the fake news posts on Facebook and other social media helped swing votes away from her too. Without that interference, would she have clung on in more swing states? Nobody knows.

Quote:But, from what I see, Russian interference in our elections isn't what the media is reporting. That's just a by story to their trying to indict Trump of colluding with Russia. They've messed up so many times that the more important story of Russian interference has stayed in the shadows.

I agree, but it isn't helped by the fact that a number of close associates with Trump are being linked to Russia, so I can't say I'm surprised by the stories. Let's put it this way: if Trump didn't collude with Russia, there sure were a lot of weird connections to Russia throughout his campaign. He did however make some statements on the campaign (and after) about having a better relationship with Russia, so that might explain why. I think that's pretty much all you can say regarding collusion at this point.

(January 23, 2018 at 5:15 pm)Tiberius Wrote: No evidence yet, but the investigation is still underway. In the absence of actual vote tampering, the question of whether the outcome of the election was changed by Russian interference is difficult, if not impossible to answer. One could argue that the release of the DNC emails irreparably damaged Clinton, that the fake news posts on Facebook and other social media helped swing votes away from her too. Without that interference, would she have clung on in more swing states? Nobody knows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hi...government

Is this foreign interference that could have helped swing votes toward Hillary?

Well, there was that one time he asked russia to find some emails.  Ofc..according to his very intelligent sons..they get all their money from russia because trumps bad at business and american banks won't lend to him. Somehow™ his businesses aren't actually in business to make money, unless you allow laundering money in that category.

That russia was in the tank for trump isn't even surprising, no more surprising than his being attached to the hip with the oligarchs whom he launders money for, and thus..compromised, complicit..and more than willing to collude.