For the Solar panel tariff:
The solar panel tariff started with solar panel-maker Suniva (who filed bankruptcy) filed the complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission. And the trade commission sided with them.
https://arstechnica.com/information-tech...y-imports/
 
“On behalf of the entire solar cell and panel manufacturing industry, we welcome this important step toward securing relief from a surge of imports that has idled and shuttered dozens of factories, leaving thousands of workers without jobs.”
-Juergen Stein, CEO and president of SolarWorld Americas
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/20...ff-ruling/
 
Against the Solar panel tariff
Those in the solar industry installation business however are very unhappy about the tariff siting previous failed attempts.
(six years ago) “The first time the United States tried to protect solar industry manufacturing jobs from foreign competition, things did not go exactly as planned. Chinese solar panel makers evaded U.S. tariffs by relocating to Taiwan, and the Chinese government retaliated with its own duties on U.S. exports of the raw material used in making the panels — leading U.S. manufacturers to lay off more than 1,000 workers and scrap a new $1.2 billion factory.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...156f9d7313
 
The Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA) estimates that the tariff “will cause the loss of roughly 23,000 American jobs this year”
https://www.seia.org/news/presidents-dec...ss-america
 
Corruption
The oil, gas and coal companies stand the most to gain from sluggish growth in the renewable energy market. The raised $107 million for Trump’s inauguration, and have spent 36.1 million on federal lobbying efforts from Jan. 1 through March 31. And the money seems to be paying off:
1) Rescinding ban dumping toxic heavy metals into waterways
2) Keystone XL Pipeline and the Dakota Access Pipeline
3) Rolling back the Clean Power Plan
4) Opening up protected lands to drilling and mining interests
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2017/05/...swamp-cash
 
Going so far as to nominate them to his cabinet
1) ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State
2) Rick Perry for Secretary of Energy
https://www.oilandgasinvestor.com/trump-...es-1453571
 
Closing
All this in the face of climate change disasters we’re seeing in places like fires in California, flooding in Houston, and Puerto Rico four months later still has 450k people without power, and “Power may not be fully restored until May”.
https://weather.com/news/news/2018-01-26...estoration

I'm conflicted, here.  Chinese solar is dirty as fuck.  American solar is no longer cost effective.

It's funny to watch left wing people defend the free market all of a sudden.

Almost as amusing as watching conservatards defend oil company cocksuckers!

I don't know economics stuff. Not my territory. All I know is that cheap solar-voltaic panels is good for the human race.

But as ignorant of economic issues as I am, I can't help but note that the U.S. spends more on national defense than China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, the United Kingdom, India, France, and Japan combined. Fuck! How powerful do we need to be?

Could we maybe reallocate 10% of that massive milatary budget to something that benefits the entire human race and simultaneousloy smoke the Chinese and anybody else on solar technology?

Being that we are so wealthy and have the finest universities in the world, couldn't we do that?

(January 27, 2018 at 1:18 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: It's funny to watch left wing people defend the free market all of a sudden.

There's nothing free market about any of this........? I want american solar to win...but, free market, chinese solar obviously wins because it's cheaper even if it's dirtier.


(isreali, too..hazera...I'm lookin at you!)

(January 27, 2018 at 3:14 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 1:18 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: It's funny to watch left wing people defend the free market all of a sudden.

There's nothing free market about any of this........? I want american solar to win...but, free market, chinese solar obviously wins because it's cheaper even if it's dirtier.


(isreali, too..hazera...I'm lookin at you!)

So are you in favor of the tarriff then? It would seem to balance that out by taxing the chinese. I guess I don't know enough about the solar industry to really have an opinion on it.

I just think it's funny to watch people who would normally be in favor of higher tariffs be all free trade because it's Trump. If Chinese solar really is dirty, this would seem a good thing.

(January 27, 2018 at 1:09 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: So are you in favor of the tarriff then? It would seem to balance that out by taxing the chinese. I guess I don't know enough about the solar industry to really have an opinion on it.

I just think it's funny to watch people who would normally be in favor of higher tariffs be all free trade because it's Trump. If Chinese solar really is dirty, this would seem a good thing.

No, I don't think a tariff is the way to go, personally.  I did a big write up on the boards awhile back @ how solar came to be in the position it's in.  Long story short, the end of cheap waste and the coopting of industry watchdogs combined with the wholesale gutting of relevant regs under the guise of "pro-business" policy.  A tariff would drive manufacturing further into the toilet for the same reason it dove into the toilet in the first place.  Offshore manufacturers would race to the bottom again.

I'm only conflicted in that our bumbling admin has at least identified a legitimate problem for a change..even if the proposed solution is as amatuerish as we've come to expect.  So I guess they get a participation award on this one?  How you came to be under the impression that I'm not predictably in the tank for free trade, otoh, is a mystery, lol. I think you might have swallowed a little too much of the rights leftist koolaid, of late. You're seeing boogeymen.

Greed is the reason. The worst part of this is that we could have been fostering solar for nearly a century.

Sure, but greed being a reality, we might want to point it in a better direction, lol.  Tilting at windmills, really.  The only way we get a cleaner, greener future is if there's a boatload of money in it.  While that may be a sad commentary on the nature of man and market, it is the reality.

The trick is to get customers informed.  So that they realize that the cheapest panels are..well..cheap ass knock-offs.  That's why step one for the bad actors was to subvert the industry groups that reliably tracked solar and turn them into their own marketing wings.  

In the long run, shitty solar is still an upgrade, and if some country wants to sell us a cheap product and incur the damage that it's manufacture causes on their own backyards, so be it.  It's at cross-purpose to why people buy solar (but not to why industry would go solar..they'll always go for the econo-panels).  To my mind, this is just a failure of branding, and thus a -failure- of greed.  The ad campaign is baked in.  Don't buy those shitty panels, they're not what you think they are.  Buy ours instead.  They're more expensive, and it's worth it.

Yay, boatloads of money for errybody!