(February 2, 2018 at 12:16 pm)Whateverist Wrote: If you just start with the bible for no justifiable reason, then no I don't want to know what you think because you are obviously a moron.

Put it this way, you were taught the alphabet without any justifiable reason.
A = a, B = b, etc. Some people would call that circular reasoning.

There is no evidence that A = a is there?

(February 2, 2018 at 4:38 pm)Banned Wrote: Being a Pentecostal would have prepared you to become an atheist, because  the churches are run by Satan, and most people who attend don't know it.

Yeah... from the same guy who thinks critical thinking is a humanist plot.

Are you going to tell us what validates the Bible or not?

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(February 2, 2018 at 4:51 pm)Banned Wrote:

(February 2, 2018 at 12:16 pm)Whateverist Wrote: If you just start with the bible for no justifiable reason, then no I don't want to know what you think because you are obviously a moron.

Put it this way, you were taught the alphabet without any justifiable reason.
A = a, B = b, etc. Some people would call that circular reasoning.

There is no evidence that A = a is there?

Yeah but circular reasoning proves nothing and says nothing. 

If I told you "God does not exist because God does not exist," would that prove anything to you? I want an answer to that. Would you be convinced by that argument?

That's why circular reasoning sucks. It demonstrates nothing.

(February 2, 2018 at 4:18 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Starting with the bible would actually be a good way to go about it, but then you have to test that original assumption to destruction to see what survives scrutiny. If all you're doing is testing the bible against itself, in order to prove the validity of the bible, well obviously you're going to go round in circles. You're no better off than a Star Wars fan using quotes from the fanfiction to explain what the Kessel Run means.

True, the Bible would have to be tested by what it claims about the world, and it would also have to be consistent within itself, but only if it is supposed to be truth.
If it is fiction then obviously it has neither concerns.

Truth has to be consistent with itself, and with known reality.

People are saying that the Bible contradicts itself and is fictitious about known realities.
Then there is the state of mind of the observer, which according to the Bible is deluded.

Such a claim is a pretty big accusation for all human beings, if not an insult to all.

However, Christ said that people actually know what the truth is, but they are afraid of being exposed, shamed or challenged, so they avoid God at all costs.

But it is not the will of God to shame anyone, or to rob them, but to make them aware that they are welcome, and that they have a powerful support.

(February 2, 2018 at 4:38 pm)Banned Wrote:

(February 2, 2018 at 11:37 am)drfuzzy Wrote:  
You're talking to someone who was raised Pentecostal and graduated from a Protestant school.  Someone who was made to memorize a Bible passage every day and recite it before the "blessing" at dinner.  Someone who had to write papers on "Biblical History" and "Bible Interpretation" for class.  Someone who claimed to be xtian until past the age of 40.

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My - problem, as you might choose to oh-so-ignorantly and judgmentally frame it - is that I took classes in cosmology and other sciences, comparative religion, and philosophy, and then I actually READ the book (that I still have mostly memorized) WITHOUT the mindset that "ooh, god wrote this for humanity and it's special!".

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Quote:Being a Pentecostal would have prepared you to become an atheist, because  the churches are run by Satan, and most people who attend don't know it.

Ah, yes, another one of "oh but you are the wrong BRAND of Christian, they are deluded, and MY sect has all of the right answers!" False prophets!  Impostors!  Oh the horror! Oh, they insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible, they are SO wrong!"   -- I actually agree with that part.  A literal interpretation of the Bible is completely insane.  

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The essentials of being able to connect with God to have a living experience, are not there, because their doctrines have shut God out, and their use of the Bible is dishonest and ritualistic.
But now evolution removes God altogether, and the third phase of deception is yet to come, where supernatural wonders, convince people to turn to God again, except it won't be God but an impostor of one kind or another.
The Pentecostals would have taught you something along that line about the Antichrist, but what they taught had enough errors to turn the mind off.

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Quote:Anyone who has the Bible, is able to find the truth, however, the majority do not make the effort to test what is taught in the churches.

Yes, exactly.  Anyone who actually reads the bible without the rose-colored glasses of brainwashing knows that it's ignorant, evil fiction.

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Another class of people, know what the Bible teaches, but have idols in their heart which end up blinding them to the truth.

The god of the churches in general is manipulating and self interested, to say the least.  

In the mix of truth and error, the churches hold on to people that are sincere as well as those who are unconverted.

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Quote:Your escape may be fortunate.

  I definitely agree.  Thank you.

And how do you know what "Christ" said? Or what "God's" will is?

(February 2, 2018 at 4:51 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Yeah... from the same guy who thinks critical thinking is a humanist plot.

Are you going to tell us what validates the Bible or not?

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(February 2, 2018 at 4:51 pm)Banned Wrote: Put it this way, you were taught the alphabet without any justifiable reason.
A = a, B = b, etc. Some people would call that circular reasoning.

There is no evidence that A = a is there?

Yeah but circular reasoning proves nothing and says nothing. 

If I told you "God does not exist because God does not exist," would that prove anything to you? I want an answer to that. Would you be convinced by that argument?

That's why circular reasoning sucks. It demonstrates nothing.

The validation of the Bible is personal, it has to happen within your consciousness.
Unlike the god of science, there's no spoon feeding - you have to do the research.

The story of the man who sold all his possessions to buy a field for mining precious gems, applies here.
Unless you are willing to surrender your heart and mind to God, you will flounder around and continue begging others to do it for you.

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(February 2, 2018 at 5:56 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Ah, yes, another one of "oh but you are the wrong BRAND of Christian, they are deluded, and MY sect has all of the right answers!" False prophets!  Impostors!  Oh the horror! Oh, they insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible, they are SO wrong!"   -- I actually agree with that part.  A literal interpretation of the Bible is completely insane.  

Yes, exactly.  Anyone who actually reads the bible without the rose-colored glasses of brainwashing knows that it's ignorant, evil fiction.

I definitely agree.  Thank you.

That's just how it seems, that one religion is just conveniently pitted against another for contrast, and added confusion for anyone wanting a straight answer.
The rose colored glasses and supposed literal interpretations are bastardizations of the English language and nothing less, which is then blamed on the Bible.
Congratulations Satan.

I guess it is better that you have nothing to do with religions or the Bible, let alone false versions, after swimming in that fiasco.

(February 2, 2018 at 6:00 pm)Banned Wrote: Unlike the god of science, there's no spoon feeding - you have to do the research.

Okay, nobody has ever been spoon-fed the Bible.    

Are you aware that there is a Hindu book (which some people take as a true and inerrant account of events) about an incarnation of Vishnu? In it, Vishnu claims that he answers prayers made to all other gods. If you were to encounter a Hindu who claimed that it was actually Vishnu who answered your prayers (not Jesus), how would you respond? What if he countered your response by pointing to a verse in his holy book? Would you find that convincing? Why not?

(February 2, 2018 at 5:57 pm)Cyberman Wrote: And how do you know what "Christ" said? Or what "God's" will is?

You have to test whether you are connecting with God or not, and know whether the Bible is true or not. It's called experimental Christianity, a real experience with Christ.

It is easy to say that the Bible is fiction and therefore anything garnered from it is garbage.

According to the Bible, it claims to be able to provide the resources of truth, and to be the medium by which God communicates to you.
The texts will come to mind. Yet, whatever enters your mind, is always open for scrutiny and confirmation by life' experiences and further clarification of the truth, so it will be a continuous learning experience, where mistakes can be made.

So a daily awareness of God's leading is essential, because there is a person who will not tolerate that safety zone and attempt to ruin your career for eternal life - because he has forfeited his own position in heaven a long time ago.

That's what Jesus meant when he said that I bring a sword and not peace. It is a battle against the downward trends of the heart and the world.

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(February 2, 2018 at 6:13 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(February 2, 2018 at 6:00 pm)Banned Wrote: Unlike the god of science, there's no spoon feeding - you have to do the research.

Okay, nobody has ever been spoon-fed the Bible.    

Are you aware that there is a Hindu book (which some people take as a true and inerrant account of events) about an incarnation of Vishnu? In it, Vishnu claims that he answers prayers made to all other gods. If you were to encounter a Hindu who claimed that it was actually Vishnu who answered your prayers (not Jesus), how would you respond? What if he countered your response by pointing to a verse in his holy book? Would you find that convincing? Why not?

The Bible makes it clear that it is possible that delusions can be proven to be true to those who cling to them by demonic activity.
That is where science will eventually be conned, if not already.

No, I asked very specific questions. I didn't say anything about the bible being fiction or any of the other things you insinuated I did. How do you know what "Christ" said?

(February 2, 2018 at 7:46 pm)Cyberman Wrote: No, I asked very specific questions. I didn't say anything about the bible being fiction or any of the other things you insinuated I did. How do you know what "Christ" said?

By reading the Bible and the whole consequences of that in my life.