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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 7:44 am
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2018 at 7:56 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I think we all know a guy like paul. We certainly see plenty of them pass through these boards. OFC, that's being unfair to "paul"..as, again assuming for the sake of discussion there ever was a man..the most that can be said about him is that he's the legendary narrator of a myth later press ganged in-absentia by groups with known and earthly interests. Proto-christianity, whatever that was (and "paul" whoever he was, whenever he was, if he was), simply didn't survive the institution of christianity...and I don't know why anyone would have expected it/him to.
Mythmakers were no more inclined to honor the historical reality of their supposed "founding fathers" then than they are today with regards to our own.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 8:56 am
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2018 at 8:58 am by GrandizerII.)
(February 4, 2018 at 9:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Paul claims to have persecuted the early Church, but, to me, his claim seems rather dubious. After all, Paul was not a Roman official or a member of the legions, and given Roman federalism, it seems unthinkable to me that Paul, a mere Roman citizen, could harass Roman subjects? It seems that not only the Roman authorities, but the local ones under Roman governorship, would object, strongly, to such behavior. Some will cite 2 Corinthians 11:24 where he states, "Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.", but this claim is also odd, given Paul's Roman citizenship.
It seems to me that the story of Paul's persecution of the early Church was invented, and was (and is) pure myth.
Common behavior. How many people you know IRL who like to brag about how they used to be horrible, and now they're all godly because they're so special and shit? I know a handful of them compulsive/pathological exaggerators. I laugh at them in my head when they share with me their ... interesting ... stories.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 10:33 am
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2018 at 12:32 pm by vulcanlogician.)
(February 4, 2018 at 11:38 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If he were a rapper, he;d have written both of those lines as
You gave me an idea...
"The Fresh Paul of Bel Air"
West of side of Tarsus, born and raised
Persecuting is how I spent most of my days
Maxin’ relaxin killin Peter’s faction
One day I was on the road to Damascus
Up in the sky, Jesus said “You’re no good.
Why you startin’ trouble in my neighborhood?”
After one little massacre, God went cray
He said, “You’re movin in with Peter and James in Judea”
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 12:22 pm
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2018 at 12:23 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(February 4, 2018 at 9:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Paul claims to have persecuted the early Church, but, to me, his claim seems rather dubious. After all, Paul was not a Roman official or a member of the legions, and given Roman federalism, it seems unthinkable to me that Paul, a mere Roman citizen, could harass Roman subjects? It seems that not only the Roman authorities, but the local ones under Roman governorship, would object, strongly, to such behavior. Some will cite 2 Corinthians 11:24 where he states, "Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.", but this claim is also odd, given Paul's Roman citizenship.
It seems to me that the story of Paul's persecution of the early Church was invented, and was (and is) pure myth.
Where do you get that Paul persecuted Roman subjects? The early Christians were Jews, not Gentiles.
After his conversion Paul was the one that originally brought Christianity to the Gentiles, and even then the Christians at the time were appalled that Paul was associating with Gentiles, which is where Peter and Paul had a "falling out" of sorts.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 12:35 pm
(February 5, 2018 at 12:22 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Where do you get that Paul persecuted Roman subjects? The early Christians were Jews, not Gentiles.
Israel had been annexed by the Roman empire, thus making the Jews subjects of Rome.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 12:43 pm
Huggy, the story told in Acts ( a book of historical fiction, btw) is that "Paul" was on his way to Damascus.
Quote:9 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem.
Acts
Damascus was a Greco-Roman city, a long way from Jerusalem, and part of the so-called Decapolis which was a loose confederation of similar Greco-Roman towns under the aegis of the Roman governor of Syria. The notion that some smelly little jew from Jerusalem could go to another city in the Roman empire and kidnap Roman subjects to drag them as prisoners back to Jerusalem has always been extremely amusing. I imagine the local city magistrate would have made short work of "paul."
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 1:35 pm
(February 4, 2018 at 9:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Paul claims to have persecuted the early Church, but, to me, his claim seems rather dubious. After all, Paul was not a Roman official or a member of the legions, and given Roman federalism, it seems unthinkable to me that Paul, a mere Roman citizen, could harass Roman subjects? It seems that not only the Roman authorities, but the local ones under Roman governorship, would object, strongly, to such behavior. Some will cite 2 Corinthians 11:24 where he states, "Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.", but this claim is also odd, given Paul's Roman citizenship.
It seems to me that the story of Paul's persecution of the early Church was invented, and was (and is) pure myth.
So...why wasn't he rejected out of hand, as everyone knew how the Romans operated?
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 1:54 pm
I’ve never actually met Minimalist but, I just had a vision of him on my way to New Orleans. I’ll now pretend that I’m an authority on all things Minimalist and go on to write books about things I think he said and did. God help you if you don’t believe me for, you’ll burn in Hell fire if you don’t. That...is what Paul sounds like to me.
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 2:11 pm
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2018 at 2:11 pm by Jehanne.)
(February 5, 2018 at 1:35 pm)alpha male Wrote: (February 4, 2018 at 9:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Paul claims to have persecuted the early Church, but, to me, his claim seems rather dubious. After all, Paul was not a Roman official or a member of the legions, and given Roman federalism, it seems unthinkable to me that Paul, a mere Roman citizen, could harass Roman subjects? It seems that not only the Roman authorities, but the local ones under Roman governorship, would object, strongly, to such behavior. Some will cite 2 Corinthians 11:24 where he states, "Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.", but this claim is also odd, given Paul's Roman citizenship.
It seems to me that the story of Paul's persecution of the early Church was invented, and was (and is) pure myth.
So...why wasn't he rejected out of hand, as everyone knew how the Romans operated?
He was rejected, by lots of people, but some of the folks who he was corresponding with were hundreds of miles away from him, and we're simply unwilling and/or unable to vet his claims.
Do you believe that ISIS reports the news accurately? Why do people continue to believe and follow them when they lie constantly?
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RE: Paul's "persecution" of the early Christians?
February 5, 2018 at 2:14 pm
(February 5, 2018 at 12:35 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: (February 5, 2018 at 12:22 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Where do you get that Paul persecuted Roman subjects? The early Christians were Jews, not Gentiles.
Israel had been annexed by the Roman empire, thus making the Jews subjects of Rome.
Ah, I misread, for some reason I was thinking the op was referring to Paul persecuting Roman citizens; but nevertheless, how do you explain Jesus who was also a roman subject being able to be arrested by the Sanhedrin?
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