(February 3, 2018 at 2:36 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: That's all. Homosexuality is not natural.
It's a product of an "arrest" of sexual development.

Personally; I see that arrest -which I personally see as compulsive and forced- to be a crime.

The only way to actually know if you're gay or not is to try it. Have you tried it? If not you may still be in the closet. 

Which wouldn't surprise me one fucking bit.

(sigh)
Ok, I suppose I'll chip in my two cents.

Read this, Atlas - you're usually open to research, which I appreciate.  The American Psychological Association answers many questions about homosexuality on this page.
http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx

It's not a mental disorder. It's not "arrested development".  It's an orientation.
Nobody knows what causes it, but it's almost certainly a combination of nature and nurture.

I can attest to this, I'm gay. (so is my brother)  We both knew when we were about 12.  There was no choice.  We were raised religious.  We both prayed day and night for 
over a decade to be "healed".  There was nothing to heal.  There was nothing to change.  
   I can recall, specifically, a guy that I really, really, really wanted to be attracted to.  Mike was wonderful.  I loved him madly.  I just really didn't want to touch him.  Dammit.

I'm envious of bisexuals.  They don't have that restrictive programming.  Wouldn't it be lovely to be able to be attracted to anyone - male or female - that you found admirable?
Your guy Freud thought that humankind is innately bisexual.  The "arrested development" is the programming that forces us into hetero- or homo-sexuality.

How lonely and pathetic do you have to be to care about consenting adults having sexual relationships that don't effect you? My guess is, pretty pathetic and lonely.

(February 6, 2018 at 4:30 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I'll say this, there is extremely disproportionate amount of sexual abuse in the backgrounds of those that identify as homosexual, yet no one want to draw the correlation, between sexual abuse and homosexuality.

Just look at the list of Gay celebrities that admit they were sexually abused.

Correlation is not causation.  There are undoubtedly straight celebrities who have been abused, and LGBT celebrities who have not been abused, and celebrities who are not comfortable talking about their sexuality at all.  It's pointless to attempt to draw conclusions from the data you have presented.

(February 6, 2018 at 9:53 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 4:30 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I'll say this, there is extremely disproportionate amount of sexual abuse in the backgrounds of those that identify as homosexual, yet no one want to draw the correlation, between sexual abuse and homosexuality.

Just look at the list of Gay celebrities that admit they were sexually abused.

Correlation is not causation.  There are undoubtedly straight celebrities who have been abused, and LGBT celebrities who have not been abused, and celebrities who are not comfortable talking about their sexuality at all.  It's pointless to attempt to draw conclusions from the data you have presented.

I don't believe I've said that sexual abuse ALWAYS causes someone to be homosexual, I said that there is a disproportionate amount of homosexuals that have experienced sexual abuse.

The amount of homosexuals that have experienced sexual abuse far outnumber those that have not.

If it is true that homosexuality is a natural occurrence and not some aberration, then why doesn't the homosexual population reflect this? Where as there is pretty much a 50/50 ratio between women an men, why isn't there a similar ratio between kids born straight vs born gay?

Quote:I'll say this,

Yes you will whether it's rational or not 

Quote: there is extremely disproportionate amount of sexual abuse in the backgrounds of those that identify as homosexual, 

No their really is not 

Quote:yet no one want to draw the correlation, between sexual abuse and homosexuality.

Because it's a dumb correlation 

Quote:Just look at the list of Gay celebrities that admit they were sexually abused.

And look at all the gay people who no history and look at all the straight people who do .So you moronic claim is just that .

(February 7, 2018 at 12:20 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 9:53 pm)Astreja Wrote:

---

Correlation is not causation.  There are undoubtedly straight celebrities who have been abused, and LGBT celebrities who have not been abused, and celebrities who are not comfortable talking about their sexuality at all.  It's pointless to attempt to draw conclusions from the data you have presented.

---

---

I don't believe I've said that sexual abuse ALWAYS causes someone to be homosexual, I said that there is a disproportionate amount of homosexuals that have experienced sexual abuse.

---

The amount of homosexuals that have experienced sexual abuse far outnumber those that have not.

If it is true that homosexuality is a natural occurrence and not some aberration, then why doesn't the homosexual population reflect this? Where as there is pretty much a 50/50 ratio between women an men, why isn't there a similar ratio between kids born straight vs born gay?

If you're going to claim that a greater proportion of homosexuals than heterosexuals are victims of sexual abuse, you had better provide multiple peer-reviewed studies on the subject, immediately.  In fact, you should have provided them with the assertion.

Kinsey asserted that homosexuals make up about ten percent of the population, with a small margin of error. (Similar numbers have been found in the animal kingdom.  Some researchers believe that the number is quite a bit higher, and many postulate that the natural state of humanity is bisexual.)  In humans, the percentage of male homosexuals is a bit higher and females a bit lower than the 10 percent - or whatever number the researchers finally settle upon. This clearly points to social benefits and evolution.  Here is a very good article on the subject.  https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Ev...-of/135762

(February 7, 2018 at 1:12 am)drfuzzy Wrote:

(February 7, 2018 at 12:20 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

---

I don't believe I've said that sexual abuse ALWAYS causes someone to be homosexual, I said that there is a disproportionate amount of homosexuals that have experienced sexual abuse.

---

The amount of homosexuals that have experienced sexual abuse far outnumber those that have not.

If it is true that homosexuality is a natural occurrence and not some aberration, then why doesn't the homosexual population reflect this? Where as there is pretty much a 50/50 ratio between women an men, why isn't there a similar ratio between kids born straight vs born gay?

If you're going to claim that a greater proportion of homosexuals than heterosexuals are victims of sexual abuse, you had better provide multiple peer-reviewed studies on the subject, immediately.  In fact, you should have provided them with the assertion.

Kinsey asserted that homosexuals make up about ten percent of the population, with a small margin of error. (Similar numbers have been found in the animal kingdom.  Some researchers believe that the number is quite a bit higher, and many postulate that the natural state of humanity is bisexual.)  In humans, the percentage of male homosexuals is a bit higher and females a bit lower than the 10 percent - or whatever number the researchers finally settle upon. This clearly points to social benefits and evolution.  Here is a very good article on the subject.  https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Ev...-of/135762

Makes sense

(February 7, 2018 at 12:20 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I don't believe I've said that sexual abuse ALWAYS causes someone to be homosexual, I said that there is a disproportionate amount of homosexuals that have experienced sexual abuse.

Peer-reviewed data, please?

Quote:The amount of homosexuals that have experienced sexual abuse far outnumber those that have not.

Again, where is the actual data?

Quote:If it is true that homosexuality is a natural occurrence and not some aberration, then why doesn't the homosexual population reflect this? Where as there is pretty much a 50/50 ratio between women an men, why isn't there a similar ratio between kids born straight vs born gay?

Why does there have to be a 50/50 split?  There isn't one between brown eyes and blue eyes, or between red hair and not-red hair.

(February 7, 2018 at 12:34 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:I'll say this,

Yes you will whether it's rational or not 

Quote: there is extremely disproportionate amount of sexual abuse in the backgrounds of those that identify as homosexual, 

No their really is not 

Quote:yet no one want to draw the correlation, between sexual abuse and homosexuality.

Because it's a dumb correlation 

Quote:Just look at the list of Gay celebrities that admit they were sexually abused.

And look at all the gay people who no history and look at all the straight people who do .So you moronic claim is just that .

You see, unlike you, I at least provide receipts to show why I take a certain position? If you think there isn't a disproportionate amount of sexual abuse in the backgrounds or that drawing a correlation between sexual abuse and homosexuality is just dumb, then how about posting a source that we can examine instead of just basically saying nuh-huh.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3912575/

Quote:Using survey data from 63,028 women participating in the Nurses’ Health Study II, we investigated sexual orientation group differences in emotional, physical, and sexual abuse in childhood and adolescence. Multivariable log-binomial and linear regression models were used to examine orientation group differences in prevalence and severity of abuse, with heterosexual as the referent and controlling for sociodemographics. Results showed strong evidence of elevated frequency, severity, and persistence of abuse experienced by lesbian and bisexual women.

Quote:Over 63,000 women provided information about their sexual orientation: 98.9% were heterosexual (n = 62,311), 0.4 percent (n = 223) bisexual, and 0.8 percent (n = 494) lesbian. Participants ranged in age from 36 to 56 years at the time of data collection, and 93.3 percent were of white race/ethnicity (Table 1). As shown in Table 2, lesbian and bisexual women, compared to heterosexual women, reported more frequent occurrence of abuse, and in the subset who experienced physical victimization, lesbian and bisexual women reported greater chronicity of the abuse in both childhood and adolescence.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles...i-anti-gay

Quote:A surprising number of letters
asserted that gays have a right to be rude or abusive because they
themselves have been abused.