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Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 6:03 pm
I have over the years gotten tired of discussng whether there is a god, with well meaning relatives. I have a new program. I say,
I would like to (1) believe in god, if god exists; and (2) to not believe in god, if God does not exist. Can you say the same? If the answer is "no," I refuse to discuss the matter as we have left the realm of what is in favor of we would like to be.
I've tried this just three times now. The answer has never been flat out no at least not initially. Instead, the responses have been: but you are trying to take away my faith; Pascal's Wager; and I just know he does. To which I respond, that unless you are willing to consider the possibility there is no god, than there is no point in the dicussion. It isn't perfect, but so far this works better than anything I've tried yet.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 6:07 pm
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2018 at 6:10 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I've been using a similar approach from time to time in religious discussions, irl. I give them even more, though. I ask whether or not there might be things associated with their faith that they wouldn't agree with -regardless- of the existence of a god. Could be anything, really, from the innerrency of scripture to the bedroom busybodyism of peepergod.
I've known enough grunts to know it's a waste of time discussing anything with head bobbers. Unless theyre willing to hold their own diety to some standard, "god will(s) it" will always seem like a sufficient answer to any question regardless of what that question is, as far as they're concerned. Why is the sky blue? Gods will. Why are we bipedal? Gods will. Why can't I shake my pecker four times after I piss? God's will. When is slavery okay? Gods will. Who deserves to die? Gods will.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 6:10 pm
I'm a little more blunt: "If you'd like me to stay in the room/at this gathering we won't discuss religion or politics. "
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 6:34 pm
I like your approach, Jenny, I'm the same way. I like discussing religion (but not politics), but there's no point in discussing it with someone who is not interested in finding out the truth, if they just want to validate their preconceived opinions.
Jeff a.k.a. wheatpenny
"If God sends me to hell I will start a commune there. And it will be the greatest commune ever because all the best people will be there"
(Osho)
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 7:21 pm
(March 3, 2018 at 6:10 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I'm a little more blunt: "If you'd like me to stay in the room/at this gathering we won't discuss religion or politics. "
Too subtle. "We're all armed here. Don't start something I'll have to finish."
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 8:11 pm
(March 3, 2018 at 6:03 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I have over the years gotten tired of discussng whether there is a god, with well meaning relatives. I have a new program. I say,
I would like to (1) believe in god, if god exists; and (2) to not believe in god, if God does not exist. Can you say the same? If the answer is "no," I refuse to discuss the matter as we have left the realm of what is in favor of we would like to be.
I've tried this just three times now. The answer has never been flat out no at least not initially. Instead, the responses have been: but you are trying to take away my faith; Pascal's Wager; and I just know he does. To which I respond, that unless you are willing to consider the possibility there is no god, than there is no point in the dicussion. It isn't perfect, but so far this works better than anything I've tried yet.
I always ask "If you are bleeding out after a car accident, do you call an ambulance or pray?" makes them think for seconds at least. Pointing out that without a fear of death religion has no power.. sometimes strikes a chord. Getting people to actually read the book changes their own minds for them. Disrupting church services by noisily eating a bag of crisps always helps..
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 8:45 pm
It's a pointless discussion either way. Remember, is not merely "god" they are arguing for it is "their god." Ask yourself what would happen if you said that you were inclined to accept allah?
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 8:49 pm
Anusius ?
Cloacina ?
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 8:54 pm
Cloacina certainly exists. YOu can tell by the smell.
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RE: Before We Discuss Whether God Exists, I Have A Question
March 3, 2018 at 8:55 pm
(March 3, 2018 at 6:03 pm)Jenny A Wrote: <Snipped for focus>
Unless you are willing to consider the possibility there is no god, than there is no point in the discussion.
Beautiful. This should be part of the forums banner.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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