(March 4, 2018 at 10:25 am)Lutrinae Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 10:20 am)J a c k Wrote: Due to my slightly modified work schedule, I’ve been having to stay at work for lunch. I usually try to avoid the break room, but I’ve been having no choice. It’s common for coworkers to try to convince me that there’s a god by sharing their stories. I just smile and nod as I scroll through my phone. Nothing I say will even be considered, so there’s no point in discussion. I’ve learned this and accept it.

I've always openly informed my coworkers that I'm atheist, but of course I've been lucky enough to never work with a religious person who only wanted to talk about god all day.

Oh yeah. They all know I’m atheist. That’s why they try to convince me.

(March 4, 2018 at 10:29 am)J a c k Wrote: Oh yeah. They all know I’m atheist. That’s why they try to convince me.

I suppose you could technically go to H.R. about it.

(March 4, 2018 at 10:32 am)Lutrinae Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 10:29 am)J a c k Wrote: Oh yeah. They all know I’m atheist. That’s why they try to convince me.

I suppose you could technically go to H.R. about it.  

Neh. They’re nice people with good intentions. They’re just as brainwashed as I was when I was in the church. I asked questions when I was ready. They know where to find me when they’re ready.

(March 4, 2018 at 10:20 am)J a c k Wrote: Due to my slightly modified work schedule, I’ve been having to stay at work for lunch. I usually try to avoid the break room, but I’ve been having no choice. It’s common for coworkers to try to convince me that there’s a god by sharing their stories. I just smile and nod as I scroll through my phone. Nothing I say will even be considered, so there’s no point in discussion. I’ve learned this and accept it.

Um.............ick. This feels like persecution by the religious and discrimination.

Invite HR to lunch. 

Shit: Ninja'd.

(March 4, 2018 at 9:23 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Jenny, I think where people may be getting hung up is that having hope is part of having faith. The 2 go hand in hand. There is no concrete proof that God exists, but we *hope* that He does.

Non of this relates in any way to the OP.

Quote:Of course, if it was somehow made 100% clear that God indeed was not real...

No. The stipulation was:

Quote:Unless you are willing to consider the possibility there is no god, than there is no point in the discussion.

"Willing to consider", not "demonstrate non existence of".

(March 4, 2018 at 9:23 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Jenny, I think where people may be getting hung up is that having hope is part of having faith. The 2 go hand in hand. There is no concrete proof that God exists, but we *hope* that He does.

Of course, if it was somehow made 100% clear that God indeed was not real, there would be no reason to hope anymore and I would just face the reality. But as everyone knows, It's almost impossible to disprove a negative and probably impossible to disprove the existance of God. So there will always be room for faith and hope, and people will keep hoping.

But that is exactly the point of my question.  Discussing the existence of something when one person is emotionally invested in belief through faith and the other only wants to believe in it if it's actually true, is not a dicussion, it's a conversation attempt.  And with relatives, it's likely to lead to a guilt trip as well.  So, it's a conversation I'd really rather not have.  The point of my question is to avoid the conversion altogether.

Not that I mind debate. I rather like it.  But that isn't what conversations with faithful relatives leads to.

(March 4, 2018 at 11:02 am)Succubus Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 9:23 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Jenny, I think where people may be getting hung up is that having hope is part of having faith. The 2 go hand in hand. There is no concrete proof that God exists, but we *hope* that He does.

Non of this relates in any way to the OP.

Quote:Of course, if it was somehow made 100% clear that God indeed was not real...

No. The stipulation was:

Quote:Unless you are willing to consider the possibility there is no god, than there is no point in the discussion.

"Willing to consider", not "demonstrate non existence of".

OMG, he spoke to me!! 

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(March 4, 2018 at 11:18 am)Jenny A Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 9:23 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Jenny, I think where people may be getting hung up is that having hope is part of having faith. The 2 go hand in hand. There is no concrete proof that God exists, but we *hope* that He does.

Of course, if it was somehow made 100% clear that God indeed was not real, there would be no reason to hope anymore and I would just face the reality. But as everyone knows, It's almost impossible to disprove a negative and probably impossible to disprove the existance of God. So there will always be room for faith and hope, and people will keep hoping.

But that is exactly the point of my question.  Discussing the existence of something when one person is emotionally invested in belief through faith and the other only wants to believe in it if it's actually true, is not a dicussion, it's a conversation attempt.  And with relatives, it's likely to lead to a guilt trip as well.  So, it's a conversation I'd really rather not have.  The point of my question is to avoid the the conversion altogether.

Not that I mind debate. I rather like it.  But that isn't what conversations with faithful relatives leads to.

But that's what I'm saying though. Of course we (well, at least myself) only want to believe in it if it's true. If I found out God didn't exist, trust me, there would be no reason for me to lie to myself. But the point is it's impossible to know with 100% certainty whether it actually is or is not true. 

There currently exists legitimate reasons to think that it is, and legitimate reason to think that it isn't. A person usually takes the position that is most convincing to them and makes the most sense to them. But without concrete proof they are only left to hope that they are right, and that's where the faith part comes in. It doesn't mean they want to believe in it even if it isn't true. It means they think it probably is, and fill in the uncertainty part with faith/hope. 

It's interesting for me personally to discuss the reason for whatever position a person takes on the issue, but I can see why it would be frustrating for either party to try to convince the other person when there is no concrete proof either way.

I prefer to start with, "Why does it matter?"

If they can't answer that, then the question of existence is moot. In my experience, very few theists even try to answer it.

(March 4, 2018 at 11:02 am)Succubus Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 9:23 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Jenny, I think where people may be getting hung up is that having hope is part of having faith. The 2 go hand in hand. There is no concrete proof that God exists, but we *hope* that He does.

Non of this relates in any way to the OP.

Quote:Of course, if it was somehow made 100% clear that God indeed was not real...

No. The stipulation was:

Quote:Unless you are willing to consider the possibility there is no god, than there is no point in the discussion.

"Willing to consider", not "demonstrate non existence of".

Ok, ok, I'll respond to this seriously. 

My bold... Yeah, I can see that. In any discussion both sides have to be willing to consider the other side. So if that's all Jenny was trying to say, then I would agree with her. There has to be open mind in discussion.

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(March 4, 2018 at 11:47 am)robvalue Wrote: I prefer to start with, "Why does it matter?"

If they can't answer that, then the question of existence is moot. In my experience, very few theists even try to answer it.

Why does what matter?

(March 4, 2018 at 11:49 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My bold... Yeah, I can see that. In any discussion both sides have to be willing to consider the other side. So if that's all Jenny was trying to say, then I would agree with her. There has to be open mind in discussion.

One more time:
Are you are willing to consider the possibility there is no god?
Yes or no.