(March 5, 2018 at 2:51 am)orthodox-man Wrote:

(March 5, 2018 at 1:53 am)Succubus Wrote: Are you in any capacity affiliated with the website you quoted above?

Nope, I just read it to see what people report. I look for inconsistencies to try and see if I can stop beleiving in it. I find some inconsistencies, some interesting reports, so I am on the fence

That is a page than anyone can go and make up stories about NDE and people do make up stories (lies). Why they do it there are lots of reasons, but there are also people that desperatly want to belive in any indication that there is some sort of life after death so hence belif in Nostardamus, garden fairies, UFOs and billions of other things.

I would recommend you to read a book "Flim-Flam" by James Randi where he examines why people invent and then believe in such things. One of the many eye opening things is when he was on the radio show (in agreement with radio host) falsely claiming he was some guy that on his way to the station saw a UFO in some particular place in the town and when people heard that they started calling, claiming that they saw the same thing and in 30 minutes they determent shape of the craft, position, how many of other craft was there and direction they were flying. It's all because people love spooky stories and will do anything to be part of it - even lie.

Try looking at it this way: there is a thing called Controlled clinical death when during certain surgeries surgeons stop patient heart and lungs for some time (it can go up to 30 minutes if it's very cold) so they are dead. You have hundreds or even thousands of cases like that happening every day and no patient during that time experiences NDE or at least well over 99% of cases claim not to. They experience nothing.

If NDE was so common as "your" webpage claims then in our capitalist world there would be doctors just specialized to put people into Controlled clinical death so that they can see Jesus or Ra or Odin or whatever is supposed to be out there, but there isn't. Not just that but going into Controlled clinical death would be a religious custom; students of theology would be induced into Controlled clinical death to go and speak to Jesus and write doctorates, but they don't because when people die they don't encounter anybody.

(March 4, 2018 at 12:04 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 9:18 am)Little Rik Wrote: Confusion, confusion and more confusion Brian.  

You wouldn't know why innocent looking little babies die in a violent way.
I also do not know.
At the same time I know that mass killers can not possibly pay their debt in one life time so it make sense that they will have to reborn again and again for paying their debt.
The karma law act like a bank.
Until you pay back your debt with them they will be after you even if you escape on the moon.  

By the way what all your whining has to do with whether the hell exist or not only Santa knows.  

Yes I do know why innocent babies die in a violent way. Bad shit happens. It isn't that compassionate humans want it to happen, we don't. But it happens, just like one day you might slip in your bathtub and split your scull, or go hiking and slip and fall down a cliff, or you reach for your cell phone while driving and get smashed by an 18 wheeler. 

Bad happening does not make that bad some product of a Sky Wizard punishing you, or a ground villain. Why are you so desperate to have life be some comic book super hero movie?

My debt? Holy crap dude, so life is an ATM machine and all off us are borrowers? Your metaphors are nonsense.  I know you are trying to make life grand with your words, but you sound as romantic with your religion as Mystic tries with his. 

Reality isn't some grade school or High school play where the jock gets the cheerleader 100% of the time.

If you want bad shit to be reduced in life, stop trying to make garbage mythology the gap answer as to why.

If it is a crime, study behavior.

If it is a disease, study medicine.

If it is war, study diplomacy.

If is nature, study evolution, geology, meteorology, astrophysics. 

We do not need Jesus, or Allah or Yahweh or Buddha or Brahma to understand why either good or bad happen in life.

Studying this and that is not only good but essential so I understand your point.
Unfortunately you do not understand that there is a lot more behind this knowledge.
Actions and reactions are a reality.
Even the very science that atheists glorify all the time agree with me.
So.........wrong once again Brian.  

---

(March 5, 2018 at 4:12 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(March 5, 2018 at 2:51 am)orthodox-man Wrote: Nope, I just read it to see what people report. I look for inconsistencies to try and see if I can stop beleiving in it. I find some inconsistencies, some interesting reports, so I am on the fence

That is a page than anyone can go and make up stories about NDE and people do make up stories (lies). Why they do it there are lots of reasons, but there are also people that desperatly want to belive in any indication that there is some sort of life after death so hence belif in Nostardamus, garden fairies, UFOs and billions of other things.

I would recommend you to read a book "Flim-Flam" by James Randi where he examines why people invent and then believe in such things. One of the many eye opening things is when he was on the radio show (in agreement with radio host) falsely claiming he was some guy that on his way to the station saw a UFO in some particular place in the town and when people heard that they started calling, claiming that they saw the same thing and in 30 minutes they determent shape of the craft, position, how many of other craft was there and direction they were flying. It's all because people love spooky stories and will do anything to be part of it - even lie.

Try looking at it this way: there is a thing called Controlled clinical death when during certain surgeries surgeons stop patient heart and lungs for some time (it can go up to 30 minutes if it's very cold) so they are dead. You have hundreds or even thousands of cases like that happening every day and no patient during that time experiences NDE or at least well over 99% of cases claim not to. They experience nothing.

If NDE was so common as "your" webpage claims then in our capitalist world there would be doctors just specialized to put people into Controlled clinical death so that they can see Jesus or Ra or Odin or whatever is supposed to be out there, but there isn't. Not just that but going into Controlled clinical death would be a religious custom; students of theology would be induced into Controlled clinical death to go and speak to Jesus and write doctorates, but they don't because when people die they don't encounter anybody.

It will take some more time FM before atheists will get in their skull that NDEs are only given to those who can make good use of them.
Why waste everybody time showing how the system works to anyone who is not interested in making good use of that?  

(March 5, 2018 at 5:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Why waste everybody time showing how the system works to anyone who is not interested in making good use of that?  

Why not make good use of your belief in NDE and kill yourself already LR

(March 4, 2018 at 9:38 pm)orthodox-man Wrote: I agree with most of what you said, you made some good points. However, Muslims never report seeing Muhammad, I;ve researched a lot. They will see a light, most have positive experiences, but for some reason, the prophet never shows up

Apropos of nothing in the context of your conjecture, neither with regards to the accuracy of nde accounts (the muslims could be having the genuine ones) or gods (there is no afterlife, but there are gods, and not the judeo christian ones either).

You're really going about this in as confused and muddled a fashion as would be possible. Nothing you conclude on any of the grounds you've offered will amount to anything more than a non-sequitur. Either afterlives exist and you have reason to believe that NDE accounts are factually accurate in and of themselves..not because they do or don;t conform to some preferred fairy tale...or they don't..and you don't. The answer to that question..either way, will say nothing about the existence of gods in and of themselves.

(March 5, 2018 at 6:36 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(March 5, 2018 at 5:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Why waste everybody time showing how the system works to anyone who is not interested in making good use of that?  

Why not make good use of your belief in NDE and kill yourself already LR  

To me life is a very valuable present from God but I suppose you wouldn't mind if someone who got a valuable present from you discard such a present in the rubbish bin?

You see how stupid you are FM.      

No, LR, you are stupid since you don't believe in Hell or any punishment, but just celestial bakeries and all you can eat buffets that are waiting you in heaven and yet you reside here when you can be in "much better" place.

(March 6, 2018 at 4:39 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 9:38 pm)orthodox-man Wrote: I agree with most of what you said, you made some good points. However, Muslims never report seeing Muhammad, I;ve researched a lot. They will see a light, most have positive experiences, but for some reason, the prophet never shows up

Apropos of nothing in the context of your conjecture, neither with regards to the accuracy of nde accounts (the muslims could be having the genuine ones) or gods (there is no afterlife, but there are gods, and not the judeo christian ones either).

You're really going about this in as confused and muddled a fashion as would be possible.  Nothing you conclude on any of the grounds you've offered will amount to anything more than a non-sequitur.  Either afterlives exist and you have reason to believe that NDE accounts are factually accurate in and of themselves..not because they do or don;t conform to some preferred fairy tale...or they don't..and you don't.  The answer to that question..either way, will say nothing about the existence of gods in and of themselves.

Yeah I watched few videos of Muslim NDE and they mostly see angels that tell them to worship Allah and have FGM. Like this girl





So why are they not seeing Mohammad more? Well if you believe that NDE come from suggestive hallucinations (those honest ones) then it's not so surprising since Muslims are not so much in touch with Mohammad images. From what I understand they are not even allowed to say his name and I even saw a cartoon based on his life where they use some other name and not Mohammad.

Now of course there are people that claim that have been abducted by aliens and yet you don't believe them while you believe NDE people - because that's how you've been raised. Plus if every street and road crossing had statues of aliens and flying saucers, like it is with Jesus, Mary and crucifixion, then there would be even more people claiming they believe in aliens and have been abducted by them.

(March 6, 2018 at 11:37 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: No, LR, you are stupid since you don't believe in Hell or any punishment, but just celestial bakeries and all you can eat buffets that are waiting you in heaven and yet you reside here when you can be in "much better" place.

(March 6, 2018 at 4:39 am)Khemikal Wrote: Apropos of nothing in the context of your conjecture, neither with regards to the accuracy of nde accounts (the muslims could be having the genuine ones) or gods (there is no afterlife, but there are gods, and not the judeo christian ones either).

You're really going about this in as confused and muddled a fashion as would be possible.  Nothing you conclude on any of the grounds you've offered will amount to anything more than a non-sequitur.  Either afterlives exist and you have reason to believe that NDE accounts are factually accurate in and of themselves..not because they do or don;t conform to some preferred fairy tale...or they don't..and you don't.  The answer to that question..either way, will say nothing about the existence of gods in and of themselves.

Yeah I watched few videos of Muslim NDE and they mostly see angels that tell them to worship Allah and have FGM. Like this girl





So why are they not seeing Mohammad more? Well if you believe that NDE come from suggestive hallucinations (those honest ones) then it's not so surprising since Muslims are not so much in touch with Mohammad images. From what I understand they are not even allowed to say his name and I even saw a cartoon based on his life where they use some other name and not Mohammad.

Now of course there are people that claim that have been abducted by aliens and yet you don't believe them while you believe NDE people - because that's how you've been raised. Plus if every street and road crossing had statues of aliens and flying saucers, like it is with Jesus, Mary and crucifixion, then there would be even more people claiming they believe in aliens and have been abducted by them.

I seen those videos, I know that BelieveitorNot (the youtube channel) scripts their NDEs, they hire actors, and pay them to give fake accounts. That account is scripted. There is no emotion in her face, the Christian ones feel more genuine. I do however, conquer with your argument about the Muhammad images. There are none to be seen, even when you type Muhammad into google, a bunch of images pop up, but no pics. It is considered haraam in Islam to draw a picture of him. Most Muslim NDEs I have read about talk about having an out of body experience, seeing bright lights, seeing family, feeling happy etc. The one thing I don't get though is even though there are images of Jesus, his characteristics and description differ from person to person. Person A may describe him as the same as the traditional paintings, while person B will say he has black hair, olive skin, etc. They argue that everyone has a different way of imagining him, so he changes his appearance for each individual so that they can recognize him. Also, the Christian NDEs claim Jesus has these deep conversations with them telepathically, and answers difficult questions. That is what I don't fully understand

Look up american preachers on youtube who became so fanatical, that screaming about hell on the street is mundane to them. I bet other fanatics choose to script NDE stores to "save souls". Why not? Sheeps are saved and they earn "heaven points".

(March 6, 2018 at 3:20 pm)orthodox-man Wrote:  Most Muslim NDEs I have read about talk about having an out of body experience, seeing bright lights, seeing family, feeling happy etc.

Hmn, sounds familiar, it's almost like something very similar is happening to all of these people?  What might they all have in common, even if they don;t share a religion or cultural heritage?

Quote:The one thing I don't get though is even though there are images of Jesus, his characteristics and description differ from person to person. Person A may describe him as the same as the traditional paintings, while person B will say he has black hair, olive skin, etc.

You mean, people see what they want to see, or what they expect to see?  Imagine that.

Quote:They argue that everyone has a different way of imagining him, so he changes his appearance for each individual so that they can recognize him.

Shapeshifter!  The wolfgod approves.  

Quote:Also, the Christian NDEs claim Jesus has these deep conversations with them telepathically, and answers difficult questions. That is what I don't fully understand

Do they?  I mean..do they fully understand the answers to these difficult questions?  Questions such as?

(March 6, 2018 at 4:43 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(March 6, 2018 at 3:20 pm)orthodox-man Wrote:  Most Muslim NDEs I have read about talk about having an out of body experience, seeing bright lights, seeing family, feeling happy etc.

Hmn, sounds familiar, it's almost like something very similar is happening to all of these people?  What might they all have in common, even if they don;t share a religion or cultural heritage?

Quote:The one thing I don't get though is even though there are images of Jesus, his characteristics and description differ from person to person. Person A may describe him as the same as the traditional paintings, while person B will say he has black hair, olive skin, etc.

You mean, people see what they want to see, or what they expect to see?  Imagine that.

Quote:They argue that everyone has a different way of imagining him, so he changes his appearance for each individual so that they can recognize him.

Shapeshifter!  The wolfgod approves.  

Quote:Also, the Christian NDEs claim Jesus has these deep conversations with them telepathically, and answers difficult questions. That is what I don't fully understand

Do they?  I mean..do they fully understand the answers to these difficult questions?  Questions such as?

This is just one of many Christians meeting Jesus, all very similar, lucid, etc.


https://youtu.be/AziiHUZY71Y

This is why it is hard to reject Christianity

Do these lucid and detailed christian accounts not convince you that Christianity is right? Jesus shows up so much in comparison to other deities, says he died for them, tells them everyone has separate experiences to suit them, telepathic convos, seems more legit than other faiths. Just watch 2 or 3 testimonies of seeing Jesus and you will,see what I mean. There are no descriptions like that I can find from other faiths