(March 8, 2018 at 5:13 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The guy who proposed the big bang theory was as well.

Wasn't the guy who camed up with the name "big bang" making fun of the person who actually came up with the theory? Last I read he was a theist who couldn't believe the universe started like that, so he made fun of it and said it was like everything just started out of nowhere in a "big bang" (that whole nonsense where theists compare the only alternative to God is the universe coming out of "nowhere" and yet they act as if God can do the exact same thing)....

Was the guy who came up with theory a theist as well? Or just the guy who made fun of it and named it?

But yeah, sure there are intelligent people who identify as theists at least. Although when you look at what they actually believe it doesn't seem very clear that they actually believe in anything concrete.

But yeah, there are also even otherwise intelligent theistic scientists who are even fundamentalist Christians who literally believe crazy things like Jesus literally rose form the dead totally non-metaphorically. It's crazy but the human mind is irrational and does what it needs to do to cope, no matter how irrational, regardless of how intelligent the person is.

And let's face it, it's mostly just down to upbringing. If an intelligent scientist was raised Hindu, they'd instead be an intelligent Hindu scientist instead of an intelligent Christian scientist. It mostly just boils down to indoctrination the vast majority of the time.

I was never indoctrinated, but hell, if I was indoctrinated hard enough maybe I'd believe in some silly nonsense myself. And it would entirely depend on which old dusty book had been preached at me over and over as a child, and how little I'd been informed of alternative truths from a young age (and given enough alternatives you may realize it's all bullshit).

I was taught about multiple religions as a child, and I wasn't told that any of them were true of false. My parents were spiritual and had their own private beliefs, but never really talked about them to me much unless I asked them.

So, I had a very objective perspective because I wasn't told what to think I was taught how to think.

The guy who proposed the Big Bang theory was a scientist who was also a catholic priest. I don't know who you are referring to with the guy making fun of it or whatever.

Anyway, my point is you can be smart and pro science, and believe in God at the same time.

Fred Hoyle coined the term "Big Bang" as a pejorative .
CL is talking about Lemaitre.

(March 23, 2018 at 2:04 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(March 8, 2018 at 5:13 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The guy who proposed the big bang theory was as well.

Wasn't the guy who camed up with the name "big bang" making fun of the person who actually came up with the theory? Last I read he was a theist who couldn't believe the universe started like that, so he made fun of it and said it was like everything just started out of nowhere in a "big bang" (that whole nonsense where theists compare the only alternative to God is the universe coming out of "nowhere" and yet they act as if God can do the exact same thing)....

Was the guy who came up with theory a theist as well? Or just the guy who made fun of it and named it?

But yeah, sure there are intelligent people who identify as theists at least. Although when you look at what they actually believe it doesn't seem very clear that they actually believe in anything concrete.

But yeah, there are also even otherwise intelligent theistic scientists who are even fundamentalist Christians who literally believe crazy things like Jesus literally rose form the dead totally non-metaphorically. It's crazy but the human mind is irrational and does what it needs to do to cope, no matter how irrational, regardless of how intelligent the person is.

And let's face it, it's mostly just down to upbringing. If an intelligent scientist was raised Hindu, they'd instead be an intelligent Hindu scientist instead of an intelligent Christian scientist. It mostly just boils down to indoctrination the vast majority of the time.

I was never indoctrinated, but hell, if I was indoctrinated hard enough maybe I'd believe in some silly nonsense myself. And it would entirely depend on which old dusty book had been preached at me over and over as a child, and how little I'd been informed of alternative truths from a young age (and given enough alternatives you may realize it's all bullshit).

I was taught about multiple religions as a child, and I wasn't told that any of them were true of false. My parents were spiritual and had their own private beliefs, but never really talked about them to me much unless I asked them.

So, I had a very objective perspective because I wasn't told what to think I was taught how to think.

Lemaitre was *one* of the people who came up with the Big bang model. Others were Friedmann (an atheist, if I recall correctly), Robertson, and Walker (I don't know their affiliations).

The person who coined the name 'Big Bang' was Hoyle, who was an *atheist* and proposed the Steady State model for the universe (as well as working through the nuclear reactions for stars).

(March 7, 2018 at 10:20 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: Isaac Newton, who practically invented physics and calculus, is easily one of the most intelligent people to have ever lived. But he was also a theologian and spent decades studying the bible, theology and church history. Why didn't he use his rationality to denounce Christianity and become an atheist? He lived before Darwin; is this sufficient to excuse his belief in the Christian god?

It does not matter.

You can find discoveries by humans worldwide in our species history. 

If holding a deity belief or religion constituted scientific method then the correct position would be adapted by ethical scientists.

It is certainly true that scientists can and do hold religious beliefs. But that does not make the tool itself bias pointing to one god or one religion.

The ancient Greeks coined the word "atom" but does that mean the global scientific community claims Athena agrees she existed?

Ancient Muslims developed algebra but yet it still cannot be used to prove the existence of Allah.

If anyone wants to know where our species ability to learn and create comes from, Youtube is full of videos of chimps and dogs and octopi figuring things out.

(March 23, 2018 at 2:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The guy who proposed the Big Bang theory was a scientist who was also a catholic priest. I don't know who you are referring to with the guy making fun of it or whatever.

Anyway, my point is you can be smart and pro science, and believe in God at the same time.

No one knows Lemaitre's true beliefs. He could have been a closet atheist.

But, yes, it is possible to be a theist and a scientist, just as it is possible to be a scientist and a child molester. Most scientists on the upper end of things are, however, neither of those; there are, of course, exceptions.

(March 23, 2018 at 3:58 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(March 23, 2018 at 2:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The guy who proposed the Big Bang theory was a scientist who was also a catholic priest. I don't know who you are referring to with the guy making fun of it or whatever.

Anyway, my point is you can be smart and pro science, and believe in God at the same time.

No one knows Lemaitre's true beliefs.  He could have been a closet atheist.

Lemaitre was a priest. Why would you say "no one knows his true beliefs?"

(March 23, 2018 at 4:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(March 23, 2018 at 3:58 pm)Jehanne Wrote: No one knows Lemaitre's true beliefs.  He could have been a closet atheist.

Lemaitre was a priest. Why would you say "no one knows his true beliefs?"

Just as theists insinuate leeringly that atheists are theists in denial,  so we suspect theists who exhibit actual intelligence are atheists in disguise or denial.

(March 23, 2018 at 4:19 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(March 23, 2018 at 4:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Lemaitre was a priest. Why would you say "no one knows his true beliefs?"

Just as theists insinuate leeringly that atheists are theists in denial,  so we suspect theists who exhibit actual intelligence are atheists in disguise or denial.

Both are pretty stupid.

I agree with CL. The theists who deny atheism are beyond stupid. Let's not mirror their ignorance. There are plenty of intelligent theists.