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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 23, 2018 at 4:42 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 4:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It's not exactly unheard of for a priest not to believe in god, lol....especially a catholic priest.
Not that it matters what a persons religious beliefs are, when it comes to doing scientific research, as has already been pointed out.
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 23, 2018 at 4:45 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 4:39 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: I agree with CL. The theists who deny atheism are beyond stupid. Let's not mirror their ignorance. There are plenty of intelligent theists.
And yet....
Quote:The Clergy Project (TCP) is an international nonprofit organization based in the United States that provides peer support to current and former religious leaders who no longer believe in the supernatural.
Wikipedia || The Clergy Project
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 23, 2018 at 4:48 pm
My comments were about intelligent theists (which there are) and not about atheist priests (which there also are).
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 23, 2018 at 5:00 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 4:48 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: My comments were about intelligent theists (which there are) and not about atheist priests (which there also are).
Huh? There is no such thing as an "atheist" priest. If you want to argue there are atheists who can be dogmatic about a position, I could go for that.
But on an official level of organization, we have no central figure we worship like the Pope, or an Imam or Dali Lama.
Yes there certainly ARE intelligent theists. But that does not mean they have evidence for the god they claim.
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 23, 2018 at 5:04 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 5:00 pm)Brian37 Wrote: (March 23, 2018 at 4:48 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: My comments were about intelligent theists (which there are) and not about atheist priests (which there also are).
Huh? There is no such thing as an "atheist" priest. If you want to argue there are atheists who can be dogmatic about a position, I could go for that.
But on an official level of organization, we have no central figure we worship like the Pope, or an Imam or Dali Lama.
Yes there certainly ARE intelligent theists. But that does not mean they have evidence for the god they claim.
We were talking about Catholic priests who somewhere along the line stopped believing. 
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 23, 2018 at 5:26 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 4:42 pm)Khemikal Wrote: It's not exactly unheard of for a priest not to believe in god, lol....especially a catholic priest.
Not that it matters what a persons religious beliefs are, when it comes to doing scientific research, as has already been pointed out.
I agree. There are Jews who like the ceremony and like to call it a race, but no, it is still ultimately a religion. My Catholic mother was a "just in case" believer, but never attended church on a consistent basis. She'd take the communion very rarely and only go to church on major holidays. I attended a Unitarian Church in central Virginia which had every religion you could imagine and a handful of atheists too. I liked the ceremony and companionship but that was about it. I was always skeptical of what the theists there said, and we even had a skeptic as a minister/pastor, whatever Unitarians call them for that sect. But when he got too skeptical he got transferred out to another location because the Christians in our "flock" in truth, were worried he was getting too close to the truth.
Just like if a Jew or Muslim eats pork, it does not make them not what they claim. It merely means they like some parts of their traditions and not others.
Richard Dawkins has if I am correct called himself a "cultural Christian".
It is possible for ANYONE of ANY label to cherry pick the parts of what they are involved in and ignore the parts they don't like.
I am an "atheist" but that is not my skin tone or my nationality. I am an "atheist" but I hate Ayn Rand, Stalin and Castro. If my mom were still alive and I had to choose spending a Sunday at Church vs spending time with Ayn Rand, Stalin or Castro, whom do you think I would pick? It still would not mean even if I went to Church with her, that I believe in a real deity. It would just mean I want to spend time with an awesome person, and not monsters.
I think most holy people of every religion worldwide, not talking about megga church cons, but most holy people be they Christian or Muslim or Jews or Hindus or Buddhist truly believe the product they sell. But yea, I am sure quite a few humans take that role because they like the power and attention, but don't believe the crap they sell.
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 23, 2018 at 5:35 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 5:36 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
I'm not saying it's impossible for a priest to turn atheist or be an in the closet athiest. Obviously, there exist all kinds of people.
What I'm saying is that from the looks of things, there's no reason to think Lemaitre's beliefs were anything other than what he claimed them to be.
It seems Jehanne is skeptical only because Lemaitre was intelligent. In which case he needs to examine his own prejudices and bigotry.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 23, 2018 at 10:43 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 10:52 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:I'm not saying it's impossible for a priest to turn atheist or be an in the closet athiest. Obviously, there exist all kinds of people.
It's happened plenty
Quote:What I'm saying is that from the looks of things, there's no reason to think Lemaitre's beliefs were anything other than what he claimed them to be.
He likely believed at one point
Quote:It seems Jehanne is skeptical only because Lemaitre was intelligent. In which case he needs to examine his own prejudices and bigotry.
Nope
Lemaître did not discover the cosmic expansion he was only one of many who independently came to that conclusion.
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 24, 2018 at 12:16 am
(March 7, 2018 at 10:20 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: Isaac Newton, who practically invented physics and calculus, is easily one of the most intelligent people to have ever lived. But he was also a theologian and spent decades studying the bible, theology and church history. Why didn't he use his rationality to denounce Christianity and become an atheist? He lived before Darwin; is this sufficient to excuse his belief in the Christian god?
I know nothing about calculus or physics, I am easily not one of the smartest people who ever lived, and I am an atheist. Most theists are normal rational people they just don't apply that same rationale to their God of choice, Isaac Newton is no different.
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RE: Why was Newton a theist?
March 24, 2018 at 12:33 am
(March 23, 2018 at 2:26 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Fred Hoyle coined the term "Big Bang" as a pejorative .
CL is talking about Lemaitre.
And Lemaitre told the pope not to be a dickhead about it.
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