I thought she was a morgue lady.

(March 23, 2018 at 5:53 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(March 23, 2018 at 5:32 pm)Hammy Wrote: Once I have found what feels like a bunch of accurate arguments and someone responds in such a way that shows they have misunderstood my point.... it's really hard to not just repeat the same arguments because they're already accurate. I try to explain them better but I'm already explaining them as well as I can. I need a break.

This reaction to people who disagree with you is never going to stop is it? We either agree with you or we don't understand what you're saying? So, we agree with you or we're stupid? Come on, Hams. You're making it hard, and I'm not talking about my ghost penis.

---

(March 23, 2018 at 5:52 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Try doing one.

We actually talked about you while we watched it! Tibs thought you were a surgeon, as in did surgery on living people, and I said, "Nope. She cuts up dead folks." Do you break a sweat cracking open the biggies or are you pretty strong?

I'm a cardiac surgeon.

But my first job while in med school was working in a morgue.

At the end of the year I got to perform a supervised autopsy.

(March 23, 2018 at 5:58 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(March 23, 2018 at 5:50 pm)Shell B Wrote: No, we're not.

That is what I've been arguing the entire time. I've consistently stated that I'm specifically talking about people who are still convinced by the person's artificial body and I'm arguing that getting distracted by how someone used to be has nothing to do with it. I've also stated that not being attracted to a transperson because you happen to find them unattractive is not transphobic. And yet I've been repeatedly misrepresented as saying the opposite. I'm not attracted to 99% of transwomen and if it was 100% that wouldn't make me transphobic. If I was already attracted and continued to be attracted after I discovered that she was trans, but I recoiled because I kept thinking about what she used to be like, and buried my feelings about who she was now, because I was phobic of the fact she was trans and the fact her vagina was artifical despite the fact that I was still attracted to it and her as it and she appears right now.... then that would be transphobic of me

So, you're arguing something no one ever said?

---

(March 23, 2018 at 6:01 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(March 23, 2018 at 5:53 pm)Shell B Wrote: This reaction to people who disagree with you is never going to stop is it? We either agree with you or we don't understand what you're saying? So, we agree with you or we're stupid? Come on, Hams. You're making it hard, and I'm not talking about my ghost penis.

---

We actually talked about you while we watched it! Tibs thought you were a surgeon, as in did surgery on living people, and I said, "Nope. She cuts up dead folks." Do you break a sweat cracking open the biggies or are you pretty strong?

I'm a cardiac surgeon.

But my first job while in med school was working in a morgue.

At the end of the year I got to perform a supervised autopsy.

Ah, that's all I've ever caught snippets of. Shows what I know.

(March 23, 2018 at 5:56 pm)Shell B Wrote: Sure it didn't, Hammy. Whatever.

Well how did it even address it? Like I said, feeling like you're put off something just because you associate it with something else that has nothing to do with it doesn't mean you're actually put off it. I'd already used food to explain how it would make no difference if it was food... and then you merely prevent an example that covered exactly what I covered already with my own example. Just because you believe you don't like beef stew and believe that you're disgusted at the thought of it because you had a bad experience once that has nothing to do with actually enjoying eating beef stew when you're still perfectly capable of enjoying eating beef stew doesn't mean you don't enjoy eating beef stew, it means you don't enjoy the memory of something else that you associate with it and has nothing to do with it and that is getting in the way of your enjoyment of beef stew just as thinking about penises is getting in the way of the enjoyment of a transwoman a person already enjoys, as beef stew is something you already enjoy. But the difference is that it's not possible to be bigoted against beef stew like it is possible to be bigoted against transwomen and that's why your analogy is false at best and did nothing but repeat what I already said and replaced apple with beef at worst. All I was trying to demonstrate is that it's possible to like apple pie and believe you don't like it just because something else is getting in the way. Then you basically said that something got in the way of your liking for beef stew. Okay. So either you're repeating my point or just thinking you're making a counter analogy because you can mention food too? My point was that the example you gave doesn't mean you don't enjoy beef stew it means you think you don't enjoy beef stew and you think the fact something else is spoiling your enjoyment of it means you don't enjoy beef stew when really it just means you don't enjoy what's spoiling you from enjoying it that has nothing to do with it.

(March 23, 2018 at 5:58 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(March 23, 2018 at 5:50 pm)Shell B Wrote: No, we're not.

That is what I've been arguing the entire time. I've consistently stated that I'm specifically talking about people who are still convinced by the person's artificial body and I'm arguing that getting distracted by how someone used to be has nothing to do with it. I've also stated that not being attracted to a transperson because you happen to find them unattractive is not transphobic. And yet I've been repeatedly misrepresented as saying the opposite. I'm not attracted to 99% of transwomen and if it was 100% that wouldn't make me transphobic. If I was already attracted and continued to be attracted after I discovered that she was trans, but I recoiled because I kept thinking about what she used to be like, and buried my feelings about who she was now, because I was phobic of the fact she was trans and the fact her vagina was artifical despite the fact that I was still attracted to it and her as it and she appears right now.... then that would be transphobic of me

You can lose attraction for a vagina you originally thought looked good after finding out it's a fake vag made out of penis tissue. Not because of how it looks, but because of the idea of it. Sexual attraction is a complex thing, and is completely involuntary.

The idea of a penis....lol.  Somebody tell me how that's not phantom peen? 

(March 23, 2018 at 6:02 pm)Shell B Wrote: So, you're arguing something no one ever said?

I'm arguing for a position regarding what would and wouldn't be transphobic and why and people are responding to it and misunderstanding it.

(March 23, 2018 at 6:01 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(March 23, 2018 at 5:53 pm)Shell B Wrote: This reaction to people who disagree with you is never going to stop is it? We either agree with you or we don't understand what you're saying? So, we agree with you or we're stupid? Come on, Hams. You're making it hard, and I'm not talking about my ghost penis.

---

We actually talked about you while we watched it! Tibs thought you were a surgeon, as in did surgery on living people, and I said, "Nope. She cuts up dead folks." Do you break a sweat cracking open the biggies or are you pretty strong?

I'm a cardiac surgeon.

But my first job while in med school was working in a morgue.

At the end of the year I got to perform a supervised autopsy.

Is that how you explained away the fact that you patient was found dead after you cut him open?

Dude, it means I changed my mind about how I feel about beef stew. It doesn't mean I still like beef stew, but I don't know it. It's not possible to be bigoted against an apple, either, dude, but you're allowed to use that analogy.

(March 23, 2018 at 6:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You can lose attraction for a vagina you originally thought looked good after finding out it's a fake vag made out of penis tissue.

How? It's the exact same fake vagina you're already attracted to.

Quote: Not because of how it looks, but because of the idea of it.

The idea of it is identical to it if the idea you have in your ahead actually addresses it. The idea of what it used to be like is not the idea of it.

Quote: Sexual attraction is a complex thing, and is completely involuntary.

Yes it's completely involuntary and for the Nth time if someone genuinely becomes turned off after discovering someone is trans I'm not saying that's transphobic. I'm making an argument against the very idea that they are as genuinely turned off as they think they are, because they're not actually addressing the transwoman they claim to not be attracted to, they're addressing who the transwoman previously was, a person they've never even met. They're wrestling with their own imagination and their own images in their head about the past and feeling icky rather than their perception of someone they're attracted to.