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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 4:31 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 4:05 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 4:02 pm)Astreja Wrote: Doubt is power, because it allows for growth. Certainty is a dead end.
if doubt is need to test certainty, certainty will have to grow.
To settle for doubt and ignorance... I don't see merit in that.
I don't see, has never been proof of a proof not being true.
Mere denial of evidence never been proof evidence should not be convincing.
Who is saying that we are settling for doubt an ignorance?
The next step, is to find the real answer.
Your position is much more ignorant. You are the one claiming to know, that a god exists. You are the one that has stopped looking for answers.
When have you ever presented demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and reasoned argument to support your claims?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 4:34 pm
Quote:I believe in God. Make of that what you will.
So how certain are you .
If your certain then your gnostic if not your agnostic . But your definitely positive.
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 4:35 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 3:53 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 3:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Do you recognize that there's a difference between my position and some agnostic atheists position, or not?
Similarly, are you a gnostic theist like..say..Mystic..or an agnostic theist..like my wife?
I believe in God. Make of that what you will.
You;re going to harangue other people and then shit the bed? What the fuck, man?
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 4:37 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 4:31 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 4:05 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: if doubt is need to test certainty, certainty will have to grow.
To settle for doubt and ignorance... I don't see merit in that.
I don't see, has never been proof of a proof not being true.
Mere denial of evidence never been proof evidence should not be convincing.
Who is saying that we are settling for doubt an ignorance?
The next step, is to find the real answer.
Your position is much more ignorant. You are the one claiming to know, that a god exists. You are the one that has stopped looking for answers.
When have you ever presented demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and reasoned argument to support your claims?
The point of looking to find an answer is to find one. You have a good day sir.
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 4:37 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 4:39 pm by Amarok.)
(April 2, 2018 at 4:18 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Neo-Scholastic Wrote:I believe in God. Make of that what you will.
I make it that you are too evasive to answer the question honestly.
MysticKnight Wrote:It's like someone realize they were lost and start bragging to everyone they are lost. It's ok to be lost and doubt, but to make it as if it should the end result.
In a group, the person who is lost and knows it has much more to offer than the person who doesn't know it or refuses to believe they are lost. I don't think he has a point just whining because he does not like it.
Quote:The point of looking to find an answer is to find one. You have a good day sir.
Nope it to find the right one not just anyone .Their are shitty answers or answers that are false . doubt makers them clear .
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 5:06 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 4:37 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 4:31 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Who is saying that we are settling for doubt an ignorance?
The next step, is to find the real answer.
Your position is much more ignorant. You are the one claiming to know, that a god exists. You are the one that has stopped looking for answers.
When have you ever presented demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and reasoned argument to support your claims?
The point of looking to find an answer is to find one. You have a good day sir.
No, the point of looking for an answer is to find one that is best supported by the evidence and reasoned argument.
Until then, the most intellectually honest answer is, "we don't know yet".
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 5:20 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 9:50 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Because people who agree with the OP want everyone to think atheists are just people who go around blissfully ignorant of a fundamental question of human existence, i.e. "Does God exist?" It is question that demands an answer and how someone answers determines whether or not he or she is an atheist, theist, or agnostic. The possible answers are yes, no, and maybe. That's it. Everything else is just evasive puffery.
You forgot "I don't give a fuck" as a quite possible answer.
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 5:40 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 9:50 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Because people who agree with the OP want everyone to think atheists are just people who go around blissfully ignorant of a fundamental question of human existence, i.e. "Does God exist?" It is question that demands an answer and how someone answers determines whether or not he or she is an atheist, theist, or agnostic. The possible answers are yes, no, and maybe. That's it. Everything else is just evasive puffery.
The question doesn't demand an answer. For people not brought up in religious homes, the answer is often, meh. And for people brought up in a theist home, it is not the question that demands an answer, but one's parents. If the question itself were of such importance, theists would spend more time trying to ascertain which god(s) instead of cozying up to the one they were raised to believe in. Which is to say that the question is often more sociel than monumental, even to the casual believer.
And the answers are: yes; no; maybe; some degree of probable or improbable; I really want there to be and am going to behave as is there is; and if I say yes, will you leave me alone. Both yes and no can be pretty unexamined.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 5:49 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 6:00 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
I think it may be because you don't hear much from atheists who merely lack belief, since I assume they tend to be the ones who dont say anything about it. The ones you hear from are the ones who actively disbelieve. So when someone thinks of "atheist" they are more inclined to think of someone who thinks God doesnt exist, rather than just someone who doesnt believe nor disbelieve. Is there someone even like that on this forum?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Why don't some people understand lack of belief?
April 2, 2018 at 5:51 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 5:58 pm by Jenny A.)
(April 1, 2018 at 5:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (April 1, 2018 at 4:42 pm)Die Atheistin Wrote: I've heard some people say that you can either believe that there is a God or that there is no God. Can't they comprehend the idea of the lack of faith? Or are they unwilling to accept it?
Then why do you Atheists all gather yourself with those who say no God exists, as opposed to gathering your side with those who say God exists, and against those who say God doesn't exist. Because beleif generally entails religious observance whereas genuine doubt does not. And frankly, at least on boards like this, it's not as if those among us who have a little doubt think it's very likely. Personall I am quite certain the Judeo-christian-islamist god and every other god beleived in by humans does not exist. There's a much better chance that a disinterested creator exists, or existed. But whether a disinterested god exists is really of scientific interest only. And it's still very unlikely.
(April 2, 2018 at 3:15 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 2:10 pm)rskovride Wrote:
Are you really attempting to dumb down and trivialize these distinctions? Who cares? Well everyone seems to care on this forum and the distinctions are used to give a more granular understanding of our position.
Yes, because those imaginary distinctions make atheism a trivial position. Nobody cares if you're 20% or 80% certain that no God exists. The issue isn't certainty. It's whether or not you are willing to commit to a stance despite the various uncertainties and vicissitudes of human existence.
If I tell my friend that I'll meet him for lunch. I just say whether or not I'll show or if I need to check my calendar.I don't say, well, I'm an agnostic scheduler so I assume I'll be there unless my car unexpectedly breaks down. Nor do I insist that I'm a gnostic scheduler because there is no circumstance under which I would miss lunch.
But then no one spends their time trying to pin me down about whether my lunch date who is always late will be again. I can't be certain but it's highly likely she will be.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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