Yeah. It's only because I like both of you that I want you to both get along lol.

Moving back to the notion of time, this video may be of interest:

(April 22, 2018 at 9:20 pm)Lutrinae Wrote:

(April 22, 2018 at 9:17 pm)Hammy Wrote:

Please keep quoting Khem so I can watch but keep him on block lol.

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Meaning you couldn't have done otherwise, because that would have meant he was wrong, and he can't be because he knows what you will do. Not much of a choice is it if you can only 'choose' between one option with no alternatives?

The logic doesn't follow.  You're merely being obtuse.

If god is considering creating me, and he can see everything that I will do from the moment I’m born to the moment I die, and he makes that choice to go ahead and create me, then I never had any real control at all.  I was never meaningfully in control of anything.  My fate was decided for me before I ever came into being.

I think Lut and CL are both having trouble grasping what fate entails. Or even what fate is. It literally means that whatever you do, it was always going to be that way. To say you had a choice even when you couldn't have done anything else.... how does that make any sense? Choice implies more than one option.

And even if God is outside of time... we aren't, so if our actions are fated, then our actions are fated.

Free will?

Who else was disappointed to discover Free Willy wasn't a porn?

(April 22, 2018 at 9:44 pm)Lutrinae Wrote:

(April 22, 2018 at 9:42 pm)Hammy Wrote: He doesn't have to make you do anything though. It just means that because he knows you will do it, you will do it.

Which alone does not cancel out free will.

So you believe you have free will even when you have absolutely no options or alternatives and when in every given moment you absolutely have to do the one thing that God knows you will do?

In that case it sounds like you're a compatabilist. But you seem to be saying that you are able to contradict God's absolute knowledge, which just isn't possible. Absolute knowledge means you have to do what he knows you will do.

When it is said that X will happen it doesn't mean that it might happen. When it is said that God absolutely knows X will happen it doesn't mean that God sort of kind of knows that X will happen. If you will do X, you will do X.

If god is omniscient, that means he can’t be wrong about what future he sees. If he can’t be wrong about what he knows you will do, then you cannot do anything but what he already knows you will do. And since he is the one doing all the creating of people in the first place, your will is in no meaningful way free. Omni god is in total control of his creation. He knew how our story was going to play out before he lifted his finger, so to speak.

(April 23, 2018 at 9:26 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: If god is omniscient, that means he can’t be wrong about what future he sees.  If he can’t be wrong about what he knows you will do, then you cannot do anything but what he already knows you will do.  And since he is the one doing all the creating of people in the first place, your will is in no meaningful way free. Omni god is in total control of his creation.  He knew how our story was going to play out before he lifted his finger, so to speak.

Thank you. You're more concise than I am! I'm Mr Rambley! Lol.

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(April 23, 2018 at 9:12 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Who else was disappointed to discover Free Willy wasn't a porn?

Just get me a camera and some hookers and I'll make it for ya.

(April 23, 2018 at 8:59 pm)Hammy Wrote: Yeah. It's only because I like both of you that I want you to both get along lol.

Hey, if he wants to apologize or start acting a little nicer, I'll have no problem with him. In the mean time, if he's a douche to me there's 0 reason for me to like him. He can disagree with my opinions and talk about why he thinks they are flawed, etc, without being an asshole to me. If he chooses instead to be an asshole, fine... but in that case I can't be expected to like him or engage with him lol.

Maybe I want all my friends to like each other so they can all get along because I subconsciously have a messiah complex and want followers lol.

(April 24, 2018 at 1:24 pm)Hammy Wrote: Maybe I want all my friends to like each other so they can all get along because I subconsciously have a messiah complex and want followers lol.

All hail the Hammiester, saviour of friendships