(May 7, 2018 at 1:43 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I think every single person participating in this discussion right now (myself certainly included), with the exception of CL, has slung a vile insult or two at someone from accross the pond, so maybe we should all take a breath and put our fingers down, lest we poke our own eyes out.  We can all do better.

True, and I admitted to have done it myself in my earlier post. But the point I was making is that I suspect that the theists often don't actually realise how they are offending people. If you have been indoctrinated to see that something about other people is sinful and disgusting, then you'll feel that on an emotional level and believe it to be true even if you cannot rationalise it. But if you then disregard everything that the person says to you and continue sprouting forth your own indoctrination then it can be extremely hurtful to those who have tried reaching out to you. You are basically telling them that they are worth less as human beings. I admit this is why CL has previously rubbed me up the wrong way in the past even though I know that she doesn't intend it. I also admit that's why I didn't hold back making my thread about how I saw theism as childish even though I knew that theists would find it offensive (even though it was not the intention behind it)

sorry to say this but you're all wrong

(May 7, 2018 at 5:26 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(May 7, 2018 at 3:05 pm)Drich Wrote: What this says is we are not all built the same. You are a hand and demand to be greeted as a hand, not only that you worshiped as a hand and only know how to praise as a hand. I came to you as a foot and greeted you as a foot. being 'snow flake' hand you thought it offensive to be greeted as a foot.

I think we all know what part of the human body you are, Drich.

How does he not know that this will be the response?  Is he masochistic?

(May 7, 2018 at 5:26 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(May 7, 2018 at 3:05 pm)Drich Wrote: What this says is we are not all built the same. You are a hand and demand to be greeted as a hand, not only that you worshiped as a hand and only know how to praise as a hand. I came to you as a foot and greeted you as a foot. being 'snow flake' hand you thought it offensive to be greeted as a foot.

I think we all know what part of the human body you are, Drich.

Huh, thought he was a certain part of a horse's body.

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(May 7, 2018 at 5:27 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 7, 2018 at 1:43 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I think every single person participating in this discussion right now (myself certainly included), with the exception of CL, has slung a vile insult or two at someone from accross the pond, so maybe we should all take a breath and put our fingers down, lest we poke our own eyes out.  We can all do better.

True, and I admitted to have done it myself in my earlier post. But the point I was making is that I suspect that the theists often don't actually realise how they are offending people. If you have been indoctrinated to see that something about other people is sinful and disgusting, then you'll feel that on an emotional level and believe it to be true even if you cannot rationalise it. But if you then disregard everything that the person says to you and continue sprouting forth your own indoctrination then it can be extremely hurtful to those who have tried reaching out to you. You are basically telling them that they are worth less as human beings. I admit this is why CL has previously rubbed me up the wrong way in the past even though I know that she doesn't intend it. I also admit that's why I didn't hold back making my thread about how I theism childish even though I knew that theists wouldn't find it offensive (even though it was not the intention behind it)

^this^

The number one barrier between better relations between theists and well meaning non theists is the cavalier assumption on the part of theists that we need fixing and they are entitled to attempt it.  (The number one barrier between theists and angry atheists is probably unresolved resentment toward theists which rightly belongs to other believers in the atheists' lives.)

(May 7, 2018 at 12:36 pm)alpha male Wrote: You're nullifying theists as people by assuming they were indoctrinated into those positions, rather than reaching them by rational thought.

You clearly do not understand what I am referring to and is evidence supporting my claim if you think this means you are being nullified to the same extent.

(May 7, 2018 at 1:32 pm)alpha male Wrote: I'm speaking from personal experience. Church was pretty hit-or-miss when I was growing up, and we discussed none of the topics that she mentioned there. So, no, I wasn't indoctrinated.

So you can honestly say that you were just as likely to become a muslim or buddhist? Even if that were true in your case, it most certainly is not for most theists otherwise you wouldn't have certain religions predominant in different countries.

Ok, this is normally not what I would take seriously as a debate topic, but let me be serious just once. I actually didn't mind reading both Neo's and alpha's posts in that thread. What these guys are arguing is based in the Bible, the book that they hold sacred, so it's not like the intention is to personally attack each one of us when a Christian says atheists are going to hell (or that Christians shouldn't associate with atheists generally, unless it's for theological purposes or whatever). It's only personal when they make it personal. Otherwise, we're pretty much asking them to stop professing what they actually believe. GC was alright as well.

I like A Theist's posts the most because he showed himself to be the most human in that thread. I find his political views (and views on social justice) to be shitty, but otherwise seems to be a cool guy.

Drich, arrogant as always, only confirmed what I have thought of him the whole time. But his honesty is appreciated.

CL, while reasonable posts, but also somewhat political in style. She seems to have this tendency to hide what she truly thinks about this and that. However, debate-style, she seems to have it hands down, and if there is a winner, it will most likely be her.

(May 7, 2018 at 5:39 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(May 7, 2018 at 5:26 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I think we all know what part of the human body you are, Drich.

Huh, thought he was a certain part of a horse's body.

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(May 7, 2018 at 5:27 pm)Mathilda Wrote: True, and I admitted to have done it myself in my earlier post. But the point I was making is that I suspect that the theists often don't actually realise how they are offending people. If you have been indoctrinated to see that something about other people is sinful and disgusting, then you'll feel that on an emotional level and believe it to be true even if you cannot rationalise it. But if you then disregard everything that the person says to you and continue sprouting forth your own indoctrination then it can be extremely hurtful to those who have tried reaching out to you. You are basically telling them that they are worth less as human beings. I admit this is why CL has previously rubbed me up the wrong way in the past even though I know that she doesn't intend it. I also admit that's why I didn't hold back making my thread about how I theism childish even though I knew that theists wouldn't find it offensive (even though it was not the intention behind it)

^this^

The number one barrier between better relations between theists and well meaning non theists is the cavalier assumption on the part of theists that we need fixing and they are entitled to attempt it.  (The number one barrier between theists and angry atheists is probably unresolved resentment toward theists which rightly belongs to other believers in the atheists' lives.)

And my point was that plenty of atheists also think we need fixing. Just as one example, few months ago, Mathilda made a whole thread full of unflattering generalizations about how theists are immature and not properly raised. There are some who think we have mental illnesses.

The point of my post in defense of Neo was to say that plenty of people here are guilty of doing exactly what he did. So I think there's a bit of a double standard when Neo gets dragged through the mud for doing the same thing that plenty of people here have done.

(May 7, 2018 at 12:59 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 8:47 am)chimp3 Wrote: If Chad has any personal integrity he would make that his final post and depart AF.

I changed my username because another member was calling on others to physically harm me. Everyone knows this. I guess it is too much to ask that people stop referring to me by name and respect the concerns I have for the safety of me and my family.

I had no idea Neo! Sorry!

(May 7, 2018 at 12:59 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 8:47 am)chimp3 Wrote: If Chad has any personal integrity he would make that his final post and depart AF.

I changed my username because another member was calling on others to physically harm me. Everyone knows this. I guess it is too much to ask that people stop referring to me by name and respect the concerns I have for the safety of me and my family.

*decloaking*

I didn't. I wish you had PM'd me for my continued use of your last name, because as much as the two of us may butt heads, I certainly don't wish physical harm to you or anyone else on here, and don't want to potentially aid anyone in actually committing violence.

(May 7, 2018 at 6:20 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 7, 2018 at 5:39 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Huh, thought he was a certain part of a horse's body.

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^this^

The number one barrier between better relations between theists and well meaning non theists is the cavalier assumption on the part of theists that we need fixing and they are entitled to attempt it.  (The number one barrier between theists and angry atheists is probably unresolved resentment toward theists which rightly belongs to other believers in the atheists' lives.)

And my point was that plenty of atheists also think we need fixing. Just as one example, few months ago, Mathilda made a whole thread full of unflattering generalizations about how theists are immature and not properly raised. There are some who think we have mental illnesses.

The point of my post in defense of Neo was to say that plenty of people here are guilty of doing exactly what he did. So I think there's a bit of a double standard when Neo gets dragged through the mud for doing the same thing that plenty of people here have done.

I realize that (my bolded) and I think I've been pretty clear that I don't share that perspective.  

The double standard has to do with how I respond when adults offend adults in an elective setting like this versus how I respond when I feel disrespected by someone I feel I've treated with respect.