(September 4, 2011 at 10:07 pm)aleialoura Wrote: They left, and won't speak to me. The last thing she said to me was "You're sick! You should let them make their own decisions about what they believe!"

Gee... is that what they do with their kids? Let them decide for themselves? Or did they start pounding creationist crap into their heads as soon as they could talk?

Religious twits who say stuff like this can't even see the irony of their own statement.

Yeah, YOU should "let them make their own decisions". Translation: "How can you not teach them to believe what we believe?"

(September 6, 2011 at 10:57 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote:

(September 6, 2011 at 5:43 am)Diamond-Deist Wrote: Salty would you be so neutral when teaching your kids, would you expose them to other religions .... I doubt it?

I still want Salty to answer this question.

As small children I would place my kids in childcare classes as I must do this if I'm going to attend church. When I feel my children are old enough to reason, I would expose them to other religions, as I read about other religious beliefs myself in my spare time. I would also expose them to language, as I am studying a third language and would be happy for them to know more than one. We would examine the base doctrines together and then the children would have to make a decision, whenever they're ready, all I can ask is for my children to give the Bible a chance.

Children learn more by example than words. When my children see the peace the Lord gives me through trials, they will know God is dependable. When my children see that I pray and read and work hard to do well because I have faith that God is working in me, they will know they can reach God through prayers too. My children will see that I am approachable when I speak to them about sex and what it means to be married, they will know that I am fair when I punish them for doing wrong and reward them for doing right. They will be watching. While others around them will take medications, have immoral sexual lives, drink too much alcohol, commit suicide and become addicted to drugs or something else, they will know that these people have not found a dependable source, only a temporary source. Hopefully, they will ask me what my source is and then I can share the message all over again, like my parents did with me.

(September 7, 2011 at 12:46 pm)salty Wrote: While others around them will take medications, have immoral sexual lives, drink too much alcohol, commit suicide and become addicted to drugs or something else, they will know that these people have not found a dependable source, only a temporary source.

Way to really nail the rest of us Salty.

Regular Sodom and Gommorah in my house, my poor kids eh? Has it ever occurred to you that you pass judgement on others almost inconsequentially in your normal manner of speech (at least as far as what I've seen on these boards)? I don't think you even notice it, it seems to be a part of who you are. Where do you figure a behavior like that would come from? Is this the sort of speech your children see as an example of how to walk in the presence christ? Do they imagine that we're all somehow drugged up, fucking men in the ass, drunk, on the path to suicide, needles in our arms......as a result of the lack of christian dogma in our lives? Doesn't sound very very balanced, sounds like coercion (you don't have to believe, but this will happen if you don't).

Quote:psst, rc is a false faith...not christian...lol.

Then again...all of them are.

(September 7, 2011 at 12:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(September 7, 2011 at 12:46 pm)salty Wrote: While others around them will take medications, have immoral sexual lives, drink too much alcohol, commit suicide and become addicted to drugs or something else, they will know that these people have not found a dependable source, only a temporary source.

Way to really nail the rest of us Salty.

Regular Sodom and Gommorah in my house, my poor kids eh? Has it ever occurred to you that you pass judgement on others almost inconsequentially in your normal manner of speech (at least as far as what I've seen on these boards)? I don't think you even notice it, it seems to be a part of who you are. Where do you figure a behavior like that would come from? Is this the sort of speech your children see as an example of how to walk in the presence christ? Do they imagine that we're all somehow drugged up, fucking men in the ass, drunk, on the path to suicide, needles in our arms......as a result of the lack of christian dogma in our lives? Doesn't sound very very balanced, sounds like coercion (you don't have to believe, but this will happen if you don't).

I didn't place any of you in that situation, I don't know your personal stories. I said "others around them" these people I speak of, could be Christians too, Christians that are depending on the church, Christians who are depending on themselves. There are lots of scenarios, I'm saying that children will compare their parents with other influences in the world and decide what they want. My kids will have the right to do that too.

I consider my speech to be calm, sometimes I'm aggressive and sometimes I'm not. It would probably be more convenient for me to agree with everything you're saying, but I have my own opinion and I'm sharing it. No harm done. No one has to listen.

No, no harm done at all, thanks for the clarification. I am still a little unsure of why you believe that people who take medication, or have sexual proclivities different from your own is somehow immoral (chapter and verse aside in the case of "teh gays" of course), or a sign of deficiency in their life. The rest are pretty boilerplate.

(September 4, 2011 at 10:07 pm)aleialoura Wrote: In the interest of raising well rounded children, I make sure that I inform them about several different cultures and beliefs. They are going to run into people of diversity in the real world, so I try to make sure they have early knowlege/understanding of such things, even if they don't believe it.

A culture that we talk about a lot is Christianity, obviously, as we live among them, and their father is a Christian. The two oldest asked me why I don't like the bible, stating that their father told them it was "the good book". I encourage my kids to ask questions about everything they don't understand, and keep asking until they do, but since that is something I encourage, I have to be willing to answer their questions truthfully.

I sat them down and explained to them why I find the bible to be not a good book at all, and then backed up my opinions with the evidence of the words of the bible itself. A lot of people think I am wrong for this, but I read them some verses of the bible that pertained mostly to children, since that is something with which they can relate. Psalm 137:9, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, and 2 Kings 2:23-24 to name a few, and explained in modern english essentially what I just read meant. They understood, and came to the conclusion that just by saying such repulsive things, the bible is not "the good book".

Last weekend I had my friend over, along with her children, all about the same ages as my own. She is, of course, a creationist/christian, although we avoid the subject when together in order to maintain our friendship. (We've been friends for 16 years). Her daughter and my son got into a disagreement, and she told him that she didn't have to do what he said, and the only rules anyone had to follow are in the bible, to which my 7 year old son replied, "If that were true, your mom would kill you for being bad. That's what the bible says."

It caused quite a controversy between my friend, her husband, and I. We separated ourselves from the children to discuss it, and they were furious with me for defending my son. Why shouldn't I have defended him? He was technically correct. Turns out, they were really furious with me for reading them such things, even though what I read them came straight out of the very book on which they supposedly base their entire lives.

I apologize for being so long winded! My question is simply this:

Should I have waited to answer such a question for my children before they understand such human concepts, like social sensibilities? Should I have given them some vague answer and expected them just to take my word for it?

They left, and won't speak to me. The last thing she said to me was "You're sick! You should let them make their own decisions about what they believe!"

Besides that statement being endlessly amusing coming from a Christian, Isn't that exactly what I am doing? I have never told them they should think like me. All I have done is told them what I believe, just as their Christian father has done, the only difference being that I have offered them evidence for my beliefs, while their father has none to offer.

I want to hear lots of opinions on this!

Its very difficult and its just a no win situation for an atheist parent. I fully understand your situation.
My wife (who was born into a Buddhist family in Thailand but is now an atheist) and myself face these issues regularly. We have a 6 year old daughter who attends a local 'community' school. First we had to ensure she didnt take part in any religious worship and she was continually coming home saying such and such a teacher had said prayers !! Then she was included in a trip to a local Elim Church (luckily we found out and questioned it prior to the event) this was never advertised as Christian and religious but went under the name of Hope Centre. These insidious institutions try very early to influence our children.

Next we find the local secondary school is going to become a Cof E school and its method of telling parents and gaining support was through the primary feeder schools. Of course the Christian head of tour primary school did not pass this on to parents. I found out from the national British Humanist Society representative !!

Then I was called into the heads office as my 6 year old daughter had dared to question her class teacher who was teaching the children that God was a matter of fact. She refused to accept what she was saying.

My daughter it seems needed to accept that other peoples opinions needed to be respected ???

I really don't see the need to respect a persons ignorance. Which is what it amounts to.
That's what we are faced with.

Time and again and sadly children are at the focus of indoctrination. Its like a cultural cancer.
I will never stop protecting my daughter from this ignorance.

Good Luck with your fight. Because that's what it is.

---

(September 7, 2011 at 12:46 pm)salty Wrote:

(September 6, 2011 at 10:57 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote:

(September 6, 2011 at 5:43 am)Diamond-Deist Wrote: Salty would you be so neutral when teaching your kids, would you expose them to other religions .... I doubt it?

I still want Salty to answer this question.

As small children I would place my kids in childcare classes as I must do this if I'm going to attend church. When I feel my children are old enough to reason, I would expose them to other religions, as I read about other religious beliefs myself in my spare time. I would also expose them to language, as I am studying a third language and would be happy for them to know more than one. We would examine the base doctrines together and then the children would have to make a decision, whenever they're ready, all I can ask is for my children to give the Bible a chance.

Children learn more by example than words. When my children see the peace the Lord gives me through trials, they will know God is dependable. When my children see that I pray and read and work hard to do well because I have faith that God is working in me, they will know they can reach God through prayers too. My children will see that I am approachable when I speak to them about sex and what it means to be married, they will know that I am fair when I punish them for doing wrong and reward them for doing right. They will be watching. While others around them will take medications, have immoral sexual lives, drink too much alcohol, commit suicide and become addicted to drugs or something else, they will know that these people have not found a dependable source, only a temporary source. Hopefully, they will ask me what my source is and then I can share the message all over again, like my parents did with me.

I really feel sorry for your children. They haven't got a chance.

(September 7, 2011 at 2:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No, no harm done at all, thanks for the clarification. I am still a little unsure of why you believe that people who take medication, or have sexual proclivities different from your own is somehow immoral (chapter and verse aside in the case of "teh gays" of course), or a sign of deficiency in their life. The rest are pretty boilerplate.

Do you really want to know or is this just another question that ends in mockery? It just gets tiring after a while, Rhythm. You're too intelligent not to know of at least one case where someone using medication didn't go well, and one case of someone engaging in a sexual act that was immoral. Atheists have morals, therefore they can tell if something is immoral, they can judge for themselves when things are not right. Frankly, not every comment I post is a new way to put someone down (even if you see it differently), it's not my intention, I'm expressing my opinion on a computer therefore it's not going to come across the same way as it does in person. I don't use the smiley icons very often because I expect that people will receive what I'm saying calmly, perhaps I should start using them a bit more. What do you think?

Yep I said that.

(September 7, 2011 at 12:46 pm)salty Wrote: As small children I would place my kids in childcare classes as I must do this if I'm going to attend church. When I feel my children are old enough to reason, I would expose them to other religions, as I read about other religious beliefs myself in my spare time. I would also expose them to language, as I am studying a third language and would be happy for them to know more than one. We would examine the base doctrines together and then the children would have to make a decision, whenever they're ready, all I can ask is for my children to give the Bible a chance.

Will you also expose them to the idea that "God" is most likely a fictitious being? Because if you don't, you're not exposing your kids to all the possibilities. This would be like exposing your kids to communism, fascism, totalitarianism and hereditary monarchy, then asking them to pick which one they'd rather live under. Meanwhile, you've never exposed them to democracy.