(September 8, 2011 at 3:51 pm)I_Blaspheme Wrote:

(September 8, 2011 at 3:30 pm)Diamond-Deist Wrote: Is this not just a theory?

Groan. Not this again.

"Theory" in science =/= "Theory" in common usage.

Quote:Has this foam been proven?

This is physics. Mathematics is down the hall.

LOL I'll take that as a no then.

Hold on let me get the bible out ...... hmmm looking for non proven theories?

C'mon smile.

(September 8, 2011 at 4:09 pm)Diamond-Deist Wrote: LOL I'll take that as a no then.

Asking for proof of a theory outside of mathematics only serves to make the asker look foolish.

What you're looking for is evidence, and we've got some of that - admittedly it's not complete.

Gravity is "just a theory", and even if that theory were invalidated today, it would not change the fact that it exists nonetheless.

Hearing someone make such statements and ask such questions regarding a scientific theory makes me wonder if that someone has the basic knowledge to participate in a basic scientific discussion in a meaningful way.

Seriously.

(September 8, 2011 at 4:22 pm)I_Blaspheme Wrote: Asking for proof of a theory outside of mathematics only serves to make the asker look foolish.

What you're looking for is evidence, and we've got some of that - admittedly it's not complete.

Gravity is "just a theory", and even if that theory were invalidated today, it would not change the fact that it exists nonetheless.

Hearing someone make such statements and ask such questions regarding a scientific theory makes me wonder if that someone has the basic knowledge to participate in a basic scientific discussion in a meaningful way.

Seriously.

I'm sorry if I wanted to clarify if it was fact or theory, when it's put in front of me like it's evidence I'm going to want that clarification?

(September 8, 2011 at 9:27 am)Diamond-Deist Wrote:

(September 8, 2011 at 8:55 am)little_monkey Wrote: This is like winning the lottery. Millions buy tickets but only one wins. Now he might think that this was his fate, that his winning happened by design. Not so with the millions who didn't win.

The earth has all the ingredients to have life. But in the cosmos, there are gazillions of solar systems. That some might have an inhabitable planet to life, like earth, is just the luck of the draw. It has nothing to do with your claim that the universe is ordered.

As to gravity , it comprises 30% of the universe, and ordinary matter, a measly 3%.

I think I should highlight a couple of points here, I definitley don't think I was predestined to win the chance of life I completely agree with you on that.

Also your point on uninhabitable planets sure, but the issue I have is that it does not change the fact that you need an entire almost lifeless universe to complete the picture or we don't have a universe and the result would be a fairy tale mythical one not one based in reality.

I really don't think people appreciate my core view, I do in no way think this universe is managed at all, it's random but the laws of nature/physics are at work in plain view and no laws can come from chaos ..... none.

Just looking at the formation of planets of the creation of stars all of it, the convergence aspect of it all, in a chaos only universe hydrogen atoms wouldn't form, there would be no gravity, no sense of anything.

If you have a black empty chamber and leave it for a million years when you return and open the door it will still be empty.

That is space, empty space, not only is our universe not empty but it's teaming with the properties needed to create.

It's creation properties alone mean to me that there is more at work with it's inception than pure random meaningless chaos.

Well, I was responding to your point that the universe is ordered. I think that's a fallacy, as entropy -- the amount of disorder in the universe -- is increasing. Now the question you are raising is: is this universe, with its seemingly mixture of order and chaos, meaningful or meaningless.

From our perspective, we give it meaning, otherwise our lives would become empty, full of despair. From the perspective of the universe, there is no meaning, except the ones we assign to it.

Ah, but it is so easy to point at things and say, "Behold, evidence of a creator!" Even when doing so is very much akin to sitting down with a child and beginning to read a story that begins, "Once upon a time ..." and ends "happily ever after."