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Amarok · (This post was last modified: July 9, 2018 at 4:29 pm by Amarok.)

Quote:This is just false, piranhas will cannibalize each other, they tend to go for injured prey, if a piranha becomes injured, they will attack it.

Humans eat each other too and far worst. If piranhas were mindless killing machines they would eat each other all the time sometimes not even to eat just for fun after all their are human who do that . For your assertion to work their needs to be no conditionals to the act .Otherwise human could be consider non moral beings .

Fake Messiah · (This post was last modified: July 9, 2018 at 4:09 pm by Fake Messiah.)

(July 9, 2018 at 2:04 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: This is just false, piranhas will cannibalize each other, they tend to go for injured prey, if a piranha becomes injured, they will attack it.

There you go, debunked.

But if they were devoid of morality wouldn't they attack other piranhas even when they're not bleeding? What you are describing is an instinct reaction toward the blood which is stronger than their moral senses.
Even humans can have instincts stronger than their moral senses. Like Folie a deux - which is an psychiatric syndrome in which delusional beliefs are transmitted from one person to another that they even kill other people because of mass hysteria.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: July 9, 2018 at 4:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

Or a compelling need to protect those you love fueling some terrible act, as an example of why love is not a moral or ethical standard even though it may be some standard of affection or endearment. Our moral agency is compromised by a great deal...but I would reiterate that theres nothing about piranha that would lead us to conclude that whatever pirahna "morality" is has much in common with whatever we;re talking about when we use it in our own context. Theres too much biological divergence for a common inheritance, and too much structural and behavioral divergence for convergence to type.

~~Drich~~ · July 10, 2018 at 9:23 am

(July 9, 2018 at 3:58 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(July 9, 2018 at 2:55 pm)Drich Wrote: Hitler demanded the country worship Him as God

I've seen this claimed, but I've never seen any documentation backing it up. Would you mind providing a citation for this?

gladly:
below it shows the slow progression from how the state started out with the R/C church and general protestantism and slowly moved to the "german church" and from that to Positive Christianity. Which was full endorsed by the Nazis by the late 30s.

Nazi seizure of power[edit]

[/url]
Hitler shaking hands with Catholic dignitaries in Germany in the 1930s

Prior to the Reichstag vote for the Enabling Act of 1933, under which Hitler gained the "temporary" dictatorial powers with which he went on to permanently dismantle the Weimar Republic, Hitler promised the German Parliament that he would not interfere with the rights of the churches. However, with power secured in Germany, Hitler quickly broke this promise.[139][140]
Through 1933 and into 1934, the Nazi leader required a level of support from groups like the German conservatives and the Catholic Centre Party in the Reichstag, and of the conservative President von Hindenberg, in order to achieve his takeover of power with the "appearance of legality".[141] In a proclamation on February 1, 1933, Hitler stated, "The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."[142]
On 21 March 1933, the Reichstag assembled in the Potsdam Garrison Church, to show the "unity" of National Socialism with the old conservative Germany of President von Hindenburg. Two days later, the Nazis secured passage of the Enabling Act, granting Hitler dictatorial powers. Less than three months later all non-Nazi parties and organizations, including the Catholic Centre Party had ceased to exist.[143]
Hitler sought to gain the votes of the Catholic Centre Party and German conservatives for the Enabling Act with a mix of intimidation, negotiation and conciliation.[144] On 23 March 1933, just prior to the vote for the Enabling Act, he described the Christian faiths as "essential elements for safeguarding the soul of the German people" and "We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people."[12][145] "With an eye to the votes of the Catholic Centre Party", wrote Shirer, he added that he hoped to improve relations with the Holy See.[12]
The Centre Party asked for guarantees of the rights of the churches. Hitler promised that the institutions of the Weimar Republic and churches would be protected, and said his government saw the churches as "the most important factors for upholding our nationhood". Amid threats and talk of civil war, the Centre Party voted for the Act.[146][147] Hitler's false promises of protection for the churches and institutions of the republic were never kept.[146][147]
In January 1934, Hitler angered the churches by appointing the neo-pagan Alfred Rosenberg as official Nazi ideologist. The Fuhrer launched an effort toward coordination of German Protestants under a unified Protestant Reich Church under the Deutsche Christen movement, but the attempt failed—resisted by the Confessing Church. In The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany, Susannah Heschel noted that the Deutsche Christens differed from traditional Christians by rejecting the Hebrew origins of Christianity. In public statements made during his rule, Hitler continued to speak positively about a Nazi vision of Christian German culture,[148] and his belief in an Aryan Christ. Hitler added that Saint Paul, as a Jew, had falsified Jesus' message—a theme Hitler repeated in private conversations, including, in October 1941, when he made the decision to murder the Jews.[149]
Ian Kershaw said that Hitler had lost interest in supporting the Deutsche Christen from around 1934.[17] However, in a speech 26 June 1934, Hitler stated:

Quote:The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavour to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.[150]

In 1937, Hans Kerrl, Hitler's Minister for Church Affairs, explained "Positive Christianity" as not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor in "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, but rather, as being represented by the Nazi Party: "The Fuehrer is the herald of a new revelation", he said.[151]
The propaganda machinery of the Nazi party actively promoted Hitler as a saviour of Christianity,[152] and Nazi propaganda supported the German Christians in their formation of a single national church that could be controlled and manipulated.[153]

Quote:If positive Christianity means love of one's neighbour, i.e. the tending of the sick, the clothing of the poor, the feeding of the hungry, the giving of drink to those who are thirsty, then it is we who are the more positive Christians. For in these spheres the community of the people of National Socialist Germany has accomplished a prodigious work
— Speech to the Old Guard at Munich 24 February 1939[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_...olf_Hitler

the next article is about what the core beliefs of positive christianity was, and hitler's role in it

Positive Christianity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to navigation Jump to search
"Aryan Christianity" redirects here. It is not to be confused with Arianism.

Flag of the German Christians, a reactionary movement in German Protestantism associated with Positive Christianity

[size=undefined]

[/size]

German Christians celebrating Luther-Day in Berlin in 1933, speech by Bishop Hossenfelder

[size=undefined]
Positive Christianity ([url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language]German: Positives Christentum) was a movement within Nazi Germany which mixed ideas of racial purity and Nazi ideology with elements of Christianity. Hitler used the term in Article 24[1] of the 1920 Nazi Party Platform, stating: "the Party represents the standpoint of Positive Christianity". Non-denominational, the term could be variously interpreted. Positive Christianity allayed fears among Germany's Christian majority as expressed through their hostility towards the established churches of large sections of the Nazi movement.[2]In 1937, Hans Kerrl, the Nazi Minister for Church Affairs, explained that "Positive Christianity" was not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor was it dependent on "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, rather, it was represented by the Nazi Party: "The Führer is the herald of a new revelation", he said.[3] To accord with Nazi antisemitism, Positive Christianity advocates also sought to deny the Semitic origins of Christ and the Bible. In such elements Positive Christianity separated itself from Nicene Christianity and is considered apostate by all of the historical Trinitarian Christian churches, whether Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant.
Hitler identified himself as a Christian in an April 12, 1922 speech.[4] Hitler also identified himself as a Christian in Mein Kampf. However, historians, including Ian Kershaw and Laurence Rees, characterize his acceptance of the term "Positive Christianity" and his involvement in religious policy as being driven by opportunism, and by a pragmatic recognition of the political importance of the Christian Churches in Germany.[2] Nevertheless, efforts by the regime to impose a Nazified "positive Christianity" on a state controlled Protestant Reich Church essentially failed, and it resulted in the formation of the dissident Confessing Church which saw great danger to Germany from the "new religion".[5] The Catholic Church also denounced the creed's pagan myth of "blood and soil" in the 1937 papal encyclical Mit brennender Sorge.
The official Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg played an important role in the development of "positive Christianity", which he conceived in discord with both Rome and the Protestant church, whom he called "negative Christianity".[6] Richard Steigmann-Gall queries whether this made Rosenberg a genuine anti-Christian.[7] Rosenberg conceived of Positive Christianity as a transitional faith and amid the failure of the regime's efforts to control Protestantism through the agency of the pro-Nazi "German Christians", Rosenberg, along with fellow radicals Robert Ley and Baldur von Schirach backed the neo-pagan "German Faith Movement", which more completely rejected Judeo-Christian conceptions of God.[8] During the war, Rosenberg drafted a plan for the future of religion in Germany which would see the "expulsion of the foreign Christian religions" and replacement of the Bible with Mein Kampf and the cross with the swastika in Nazified churches.[9][/size]

[size=undefined]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity[/size]

mind you the state never made it to the point where it was fully worshiping hitler as God, but that was the intended purose of the state sanctioned religion./That is what hitler wanted.

I_am_not_mafia · July 10, 2018 at 9:30 am

I feel like someone has just vomited in my face.

downbeatplumb · (This post was last modified: July 10, 2018 at 9:35 am by downbeatplumb.)

(July 9, 2018 at 2:04 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
(July 9, 2018 at 1:25 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Go on then debunk it.

The first point your video made was this, and I quote:

Quote:Piranha's, ruthless killing machines, right? But notice even in the feeding frenzy they don't kill each other. Piranha's do not believe in a God yet they don't do whatever they want, where do the ruthless killing machines get their moral code about not killing each other from.

This is just false, piranhas will cannibalize each other, they tend to go for injured prey, if a piranha becomes injured, they will attack it.

I recently watched a behind the scenes special where a cameraman was swimming with piranhas and filming them during a feeding frenzy, they didn't attack him, this has nothing to do with any moral code.

Here is a different video, same result.

There you go, debunked.

But people sometimes kill each other, does this mean that people do not have a moral code?

If so there is no need for a moral giver.

So there is no god.

I think that was where you were going with that.

(July 10, 2018 at 9:23 am)Drich Wrote:
(July 9, 2018 at 3:58 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I've seen this claimed, but I've never seen any documentation backing it up. Would you mind providing a citation for this?

gladly:
below it shows the slow progression from how the state started out with the R/C church and general protestantism and slowly moved to the "german church" and from that to Positive Christianity. Which was full endorsed by the Nazis by the late 30s.

Nazi seizure of power[edit]

[/url]
Hitler shaking hands with Catholic dignitaries in Germany in the 1930s

Prior to the Reichstag vote for the Enabling Act of 1933, under which Hitler gained the "temporary" dictatorial powers with which he went on to permanently dismantle the Weimar Republic, Hitler promised the German Parliament that he would not interfere with the rights of the churches. However, with power secured in Germany, Hitler quickly broke this promise.[139][140]
Through 1933 and into 1934, the Nazi leader required a level of support from groups like the German conservatives and the Catholic Centre Party in the Reichstag, and of the conservative President von Hindenberg, in order to achieve his takeover of power with the "appearance of legality".[141] In a proclamation on February 1, 1933, Hitler stated, "The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."[142]
On 21 March 1933, the Reichstag assembled in the Potsdam Garrison Church, to show the "unity" of National Socialism with the old conservative Germany of President von Hindenburg. Two days later, the Nazis secured passage of the Enabling Act, granting Hitler dictatorial powers. Less than three months later all non-Nazi parties and organizations, including the Catholic Centre Party had ceased to exist.[143]
Hitler sought to gain the votes of the Catholic Centre Party and German conservatives for the Enabling Act with a mix of intimidation, negotiation and conciliation.[144] On 23 March 1933, just prior to the vote for the Enabling Act, he described the Christian faiths as "essential elements for safeguarding the soul of the German people" and "We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people."[12][145] "With an eye to the votes of the Catholic Centre Party", wrote Shirer, he added that he hoped to improve relations with the Holy See.[12]
The Centre Party asked for guarantees of the rights of the churches. Hitler promised that the institutions of the Weimar Republic and churches would be protected, and said his government saw the churches as "the most important factors for upholding our nationhood". Amid threats and talk of civil war, the Centre Party voted for the Act.[146][147] Hitler's false promises of protection for the churches and institutions of the republic were never kept.[146][147]
In January 1934, Hitler angered the churches by appointing the neo-pagan Alfred Rosenberg as official Nazi ideologist. The Fuhrer launched an effort toward coordination of German Protestants under a unified Protestant Reich Church under the Deutsche Christen movement, but the attempt failed—resisted by the Confessing Church. In The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany, Susannah Heschel noted that the Deutsche Christens differed from traditional Christians by rejecting the Hebrew origins of Christianity. In public statements made during his rule, Hitler continued to speak positively about a Nazi vision of Christian German culture,[148] and his belief in an Aryan Christ. Hitler added that Saint Paul, as a Jew, had falsified Jesus' message—a theme Hitler repeated in private conversations, including, in October 1941, when he made the decision to murder the Jews.[149]
Ian Kershaw said that Hitler had lost interest in supporting the Deutsche Christen from around 1934.[17] However, in a speech 26 June 1934, Hitler stated:

Quote:The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavour to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.[150]
In 1937, Hans Kerrl, Hitler's Minister for Church Affairs, explained "Positive Christianity" as not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor in "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, but rather, as being represented by the Nazi Party: "The Fuehrer is the herald of a new revelation", he said.[151]
The propaganda machinery of the Nazi party actively promoted Hitler as a saviour of Christianity,[152] and Nazi propaganda supported the German Christians in their formation of a single national church that could be controlled and manipulated.[153]

Quote:If positive Christianity means love of one's neighbour, i.e. the tending of the sick, the clothing of the poor, the feeding of the hungry, the giving of drink to those who are thirsty, then it is we who are the more positive Christians. For in these spheres the community of the people of National Socialist Germany has accomplished a prodigious work
— Speech to the Old Guard at Munich 24 February 1939[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_...olf_Hitler

the next article is about what the core beliefs of positive christianity was, and hitler's role in it

Positive Christianity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to navigation Jump to search
"Aryan Christianity" redirects here. It is not to be confused with Arianism.

Flag of the German Christians, a reactionary movement in German Protestantism associated with Positive Christianity
[size=undefined]
[/size]

German Christians celebrating Luther-Day in Berlin in 1933, speech by Bishop Hossenfelder
[size=undefined]
Positive Christianity ([url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language]German: Positives Christentum) was a movement within Nazi Germany which mixed ideas of racial purity and Nazi ideology with elements of Christianity. Hitler used the term in Article 24[1] of the 1920 Nazi Party Platform, stating: "the Party represents the standpoint of Positive Christianity". Non-denominational, the term could be variously interpreted. Positive Christianity allayed fears among Germany's Christian majority as expressed through their hostility towards the established churches of large sections of the Nazi movement.[2]In 1937, Hans Kerrl, the Nazi Minister for Church Affairs, explained that "Positive Christianity" was not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor was it dependent on "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, rather, it was represented by the Nazi Party: "The Führer is the herald of a new revelation", he said.[3] To accord with Nazi antisemitism, Positive Christianity advocates also sought to deny the Semitic origins of Christ and the Bible. In such elements Positive Christianity separated itself from Nicene Christianity and is considered apostate by all of the historical Trinitarian Christian churches, whether Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant.
Hitler identified himself as a Christian in an April 12, 1922 speech.[4] Hitler also identified himself as a Christian in Mein Kampf. However, historians, including Ian Kershaw and Laurence Rees, characterize his acceptance of the term "Positive Christianity" and his involvement in religious policy as being driven by opportunism, and by a pragmatic recognition of the political importance of the Christian Churches in Germany.[2] Nevertheless, efforts by the regime to impose a Nazified "positive Christianity" on a state controlled Protestant Reich Church essentially failed, and it resulted in the formation of the dissident Confessing Church which saw great danger to Germany from the "new religion".[5] The Catholic Church also denounced the creed's pagan myth of "blood and soil" in the 1937 papal encyclical Mit brennender Sorge.
The official Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg played an important role in the development of "positive Christianity", which he conceived in discord with both Rome and the Protestant church, whom he called "negative Christianity".[6] Richard Steigmann-Gall queries whether this made Rosenberg a genuine anti-Christian.[7] Rosenberg conceived of Positive Christianity as a transitional faith and amid the failure of the regime's efforts to control Protestantism through the agency of the pro-Nazi "German Christians", Rosenberg, along with fellow radicals Robert Ley and Baldur von Schirach backed the neo-pagan "German Faith Movement", which more completely rejected Judeo-Christian conceptions of God.[8] During the war, Rosenberg drafted a plan for the future of religion in Germany which would see the "expulsion of the foreign Christian religions" and replacement of the Bible with Mein Kampf and the cross with the swastika in Nazified churches.[9][/size]

[size=undefined]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity[/size]

mind you the state never made it to the point where it was fully worshiping hitler as God, but that was the intended purose of the state sanctioned religion./That is what hitler wanted.

None of that said anything to imply that hitler was trying to be worshipped as a god.

As a great war leade rand dictator yes, god no.

Angrboda · (This post was last modified: July 10, 2018 at 10:05 am by Angrboda.)

(July 10, 2018 at 9:23 am)Drich Wrote: mind you the state never made it to the point where it was fully worshiping hitler as God, but that was the intended purose of the state sanctioned religion./That is what hitler wanted.

Well, that's interesting information, and I can understand that you're distinguishing Positive Christianity from its sources, but I don't see in any of that a demand that Hitler be worshiped as God.

Your latter claim, that this is what he wanted, what are you basing that on?

~~Drich~~ · July 10, 2018 at 11:08 am

(July 10, 2018 at 10:03 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(July 10, 2018 at 9:23 am)Drich Wrote: mind you the state never made it to the point where it was fully worshiping hitler as God, but that was the intended purose of the state sanctioned religion./That is what hitler wanted.

Well, that's interesting information, and I can understand that you're distinguishing Positive Christianity from its sources, but I don't see in any of that a demand that Hitler be worshiped as God.

Your latter claim, that this is what he wanted, what are you basing that on?

last line of the last quote in the previous post:
During the war, Rosenberg drafted a plan for the future of religion in Germany which would see the "expulsion of the foreign Christian religions" and replacement of the Bible with and the cross with the swastika in Nazified churches.

Also the quote hitler said: "it is foolish to end or attempt religion unless you have something better." The end of Christian religion and the replacement of the bible with mein kampf and the cross with the swastika in nazi churches put hitler at the head of the church does it not? Who is the head of the church as the bible tells it it is Jesus Christ. The top article already names Hitler or rather Hitler calls himself the savior of the german people, now mid war he seeks the position of the 'head of the church.'

: here is Actual nazi propaganda that is the beginning of the seperation of the Church and the nazi governmental church
http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/rim5.htm
here is the actual command/order for all senior officials and nazi party leaders to LEAVE the church and force compliance to the german state 'church' (where hitler is the savior)
http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/koehler.htm

This is the beginning of the expulsion of forgein christian religions as called for by rosenberg in the lat line of Hitler's plan for the religion of Germany.

I_am_not_mafia · July 10, 2018 at 11:25 am

And all of this nonsense from Drich because he wants to demonstrate (somehow) that "hating a man according to his thoughts are as bad if not worse the hating for skin color."

Hey, try not hating anyone.

It never ceases to amaze me how Xtians go on about hating, like how their god utterly hates evil for example. Or how Mr God hates fags or whatever.

It's almost like the Xtians are hateful themselves and are trying to justify it through some imaginary being.

**The Grand Nudger** · July 10, 2018 at 11:33 am

Thanks Obama!

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