If only we knew what this "paul" fucker said..... instead of much later copyists and editors.

(July 26, 2018 at 11:49 am)Graufreud Wrote:

(July 25, 2018 at 11:18 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Even the forgeries like Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus? Those Christians will find anything divine as long as it's in the Bible.

I agree with the last sentence.
But are you sure about Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus really being forgeries?

Sure I'm sure. For starters check on wikipedia for each of the epistles/ letters and go where the links lead you.

When it comes to Paul being some advanced philosopher, he was not.
For example, St. Paul denigrates literacy, logic, and learning 1 Corinthians 1:20 "Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?"

I mean he literally advocates for people to become idiots
1 Corinthians 4:10, "We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in Christ"

1 Corinthians 2:1-2, "I  did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God in lofty words or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified";
1 Corinthians 3:18-19, "Let no one deceive himself. If any one among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God."

Imagine adhering to a philosophy in which one of its prime propagandists openly advocates becoming a fool.

His other "enlightening" commands include telling people that women don't deserve to teach, have no rights, slaves to worship their owners and married people to live as brother and sister.

(July 26, 2018 at 11:59 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(July 26, 2018 at 9:04 am)Brian37 Wrote: Constantine adapted Christianity for political expedience, regardless of his personal beliefs.

Christians composed a very small minority of the Roman populace at the time.  It's hard to see in what sense adopting Christianity would have meaningfully been any kind of political expedient.

For the same reason today in America we have a MINORITY of far right Christians holding the rest of America hostage. He saw something in the tide, not just the religion itself. Personal beliefs aside, it was still tactical.

(July 26, 2018 at 1:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 26, 2018 at 11:59 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Christians composed a very small minority of the Roman populace at the time.  It's hard to see in what sense adopting Christianity would have meaningfully been any kind of political expedient.

For the same reason today in America we have a MINORITY of far right Christians holding the rest of America hostage. He saw something in the tide, not just the religion itself. Personal beliefs aside, it was still tactical.

Christianity is far from a minority in the U.S. Your contention is just silly. Whether Constantine saw something in any supposed tide or that a minority that is not part and parcel of a larger majority might have influence, you've walked back from assertive claim into the land of speculative and far fetched nonsense.

(July 26, 2018 at 1:42 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(July 26, 2018 at 1:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote: For the same reason today in America we have a MINORITY of far right Christians holding the rest of America hostage. He saw something in the tide, not just the religion itself. Personal beliefs aside, it was still tactical.

Christianity is far from a minority in the U.S.  Your contention is just silly.  Whether Constantine saw something in any supposed tide or that a minority that is not part and parcel of a larger majority might have influence, you've walked back from assertive claim into the land of speculative and far fetched nonsense.

Then why do so many theists point to Constantine as an important figure to the rise of Christianity?

(July 26, 2018 at 3:24 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 26, 2018 at 1:42 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Christianity is far from a minority in the U.S.  Your contention is just silly.  Whether Constantine saw something in any supposed tide or that a minority that is not part and parcel of a larger majority might have influence, you've walked back from assertive claim into the land of speculative and far fetched nonsense.

Then why do so many theists point to Constantine as an important figure to the rise of Christianity?

You mean aside from his conversion and him legalizing Christianity at the time? Jesus Christ Brian.

Quote:Then why do so many theists point to Constantine as an important figure to the rise of Christianity?

Because they think the fucking church is giving them history.

(July 26, 2018 at 3:48 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(July 26, 2018 at 3:24 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Then why do so many theists point to Constantine as an important figure to the rise of Christianity?

You mean aside from his conversion and him legalizing Christianity at the time?  Jesus Christ Brian.

I think you miss the point that countless apologists point to that point in history as when the pagans fell as rulers and when the religion took off. There was nothing to the rise of Christianity other than marketing for it to get as big as it did. Constantine is widely pointed at as the point of when the world changed, according to Christians.

Constantine saw something in it, otherwise why adapt it? Be it genuine or tactical could care less. It could have been both. But back then if you were a king, you still play politics and you still use religion to play politics.