(August 2, 2018 at 4:52 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:(July 26, 2018 at 5:01 pm)SteveII Wrote: 1. Intrinsic value. The Roman and Greek view was not that people had intrinsic values just for being people. When Paul said such things like "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal 3:28) this was revolutionary. Your birth, your societal status, your nationality, your gender does not give you value in the eyes of God. That would be a very appealing message to entire classes of people who were told otherwise and often lived brutal lives as a consequence.
There are actually a number of things wrapped up in this issue. If you believe everyone is highly valued by God, your worldview must change over time. Things like education and hospitals and social welfare are natural extensions of your worldview. I'm not saying if not for Christianity, then we would not have these, but I think that we can find other cultures to make a comparison and it turns out this is a very far-reaching feature of a Christian worldview.
I would argue that the West's intrinsic value of human beings cannot be attributed to Paul. You can get that stuff (maybe) if you look for it in the Gospels. But Paul delivered a message contrary to "all human beings are intrinsically valuable." Since we are talking about Paul's influence here, it is appropriate to bring up how Paul's notions actually stained Christianity with the idea that humans are only valuable after they accept Christ as Lord. That's hardly intrinsic value. In fact, quite the opposite. Human beings are extrinsically valuable... that is, only valuable when they accept something external to themselves (Christ), and otherwise are considered, according to Paul, depraved and irredeemable.
1 Corinthians 9:19-23 Wrote:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the [a]law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under [c]law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became [d]as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.
See red. There is no possible way you can get this out of Paul's writing. The passage you quoted shows Paul's dedication to his cause. It in no way discusses value of people. These verses discuss value:
Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Ephesians 2:4-5 New International Version (NIV)
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Galatians 2:20 ESV
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
IN addition to explicit references to value, you have very clear implicit reasons. Paul specifically passed on the Jewish worldview as the basic framework that Jesus fit into. He had something like 183 references to the OT. Including in the Jewish worldview was that God created the world, man was the pinnacle of his creation (Genesis, Psalm 8), all the world would be blessed through the Messiah. The Law was made to show that we cannot succeed in holiness under our own steam. God provided himself to redeem us. There is no other way to read this story than to infer tremendous value on humanity. The fact that Paul constantly was preaching about individual's response to Christ and things like Gal 3:28 makes it clear that this applies to each individual. To the gentile man on the street, this was vastly different than any other worldview he/she would have held.
Quote:"I have made myself a servant to all that I might win the more". NOT because they are suffering and struggling beings with intrinsic value... but because Paul wants to add them to the roster. That is the reason for his universal servitude to all men; he has an ulterior motive. Human beings are little more than fresh meat... worthless aside from one parameter: belonging to Paul's religion.
Again, since we are discussing Paul's writings, it is unfair to bring up the Gospels here. Maybe the Gospels do preach intrinsic human value. But if that is the case, maybe Paul's writings took Christianity in the other direction (which would explain all the beheadings, burnings at the stake, and torture of Jews etc. that is inextricable from Christian history). Regardless, something happened along the way with Christians that urged them to assign little to no value to nonbelievers (to the extent that they were executed for their disbelief). That's hardly what I'd call "intrinsic human value." Rather: "only believers of our religion are valuable." Where did that sentiment come from? I think much of it came from Paul.
Sorry--you cannot make the connection between Paul's teaching and things the 'Church' did to people in direct contradiction to Paul's entire life story of humility, sacrifice and total reliance on God to work out the details--not even close. You keep asserting this nonbelief/no value thing--but that seems just to be what you think it says--not what it actually says. Do you have verses/articles that discuss this?
