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Amarok · July 31, 2018 at 12:03 pm

Steve master of making Christianity look awful and it's god and founders look like malicious sociopaths

**Minimalist** · July 31, 2018 at 1:10 pm

I always found this passage in Carrier's On The Historicity of Jesus to be most amusing and enlightening.

Quote:As a psychologist once put it (about Paul's letter to fellow congregants in
Rome, whom he had not yet met and thus can't have shared his own stories
with):

Imagine for a moment that one of your friends writes you a twenty-page
letter passionately wanting to share her excitement about a new teacher.
This letter has only one topic, your friend's new teacher. [But] at the end
of her letter, you still do not know one thing about her teacher. Yet, Paul
presents the central figure of his theology this way . . . . It [seems] impossible
to imagine how Paul could avoid telling one story or parable of--or
fail to note one physical trait or personal quality of-Jesus.

Pg 514

Carrier continues...

Quote:Indeed, Paul mentions 'Jesus' or 'Christ' in his seven authentic letters at
least 280 times-and that doesn't count other references to him as only 'the
Lord' or 'Son of God'. Altogether, Paul found over three hundred occasions
to mention Jesus (by some name or title), and on at least half of those
occasions he tells us some particular fact or other about this Jesus. But (as
we'll see) not one of those facts connects Jesus with an earthly life (without
adding suppositions not in the text). His crucifixion is mentioned over
fifteen times; and his resurrection, over thirty times. But never any details.
So those could have occurred in outer space (as explained in Chapter 3). We
hear very little else.

None of which seems to stop jesus freaks from yammering on about fucking "paul."

RoadRunner79 · July 31, 2018 at 1:24 pm

(July 31, 2018 at 1:10 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I always found this passage in Carrier's On The Historicity of Jesus to be most amusing and enlightening.

Quote:As a psychologist once put it (about Paul's letter to fellow congregants in
Rome, whom he had not yet met and thus can't have shared his own stories
with):

Imagine for a moment that one of your friends writes you a twenty-page
letter passionately wanting to share her excitement about a new teacher.
This letter has only one topic, your friend's new teacher. [But] at the end
of her letter, you still do not know one thing about her teacher. Yet, Paul
presents the central figure of his theology this way . . . . It [seems] impossible
to imagine how Paul could avoid telling one story or parable of--or
fail to note one physical trait or personal quality of-Jesus.

Pg 514

Carrier continues...

Quote:Indeed, Paul mentions 'Jesus' or 'Christ' in his seven authentic letters at
least 280 times-and that doesn't count other references to him as only 'the
Lord' or 'Son of God'. Altogether, Paul found over three hundred occasions
to mention Jesus (by some name or title), and on at least half of those
occasions he tells us some particular fact or other about this Jesus. But (as
we'll see) not one of those facts connects Jesus with an earthly life (without
adding suppositions not in the text). His crucifixion is mentioned over
fifteen times; and his resurrection, over thirty times. But never any details.
So those could have occurred in outer space (as explained in Chapter 3). We
hear very little else.

None of which seems to stop jesus freaks from yammering on about fucking "paul."

That is absolutely horrible logic.
No wonder most historians wouldn't give Carrier the time of day.

Angrboda · July 31, 2018 at 1:37 pm

vote: lynch Roadrunner79

Sorry. I guess I got carried away there.

SteveII · July 31, 2018 at 1:44 pm

(July 31, 2018 at 1:24 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(July 31, 2018 at 1:10 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I always found this passage in Carrier's On The Historicity of Jesus to be most amusing and enlightening.

Carrier continues...

None of which seems to stop jesus freaks from yammering on about fucking "paul."

That is absolutely horrible logic.
No wonder most historians wouldn't give Carrier the time of day.

I agree. Carrier completely ignores the obvious fact that the churches already believed a basic set of facts about Jesus. The fact that the churches existed are concrete evidence of this. IN addition, Paul's greeting in nearly every one of the letters reiterate this. Paul was not writing a 'Letter to the Editor' to introduce people to Jesus. They obviously had that background knowledge.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: July 31, 2018 at 1:48 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

Christians believed many things. Thus "paul" trying his hand at polemic. I feel like we've already been over this more than once?

**The Valkyrie** · July 31, 2018 at 1:55 pm

“Paul’s writings underpin Western thought”

Yes, and prayer keeps boobs perky...

😉

RoadRunner79 · (This post was last modified: July 31, 2018 at 2:18 pm by RoadRunner79.)

(July 31, 2018 at 1:44 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(July 31, 2018 at 1:24 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: That is absolutely horrible logic.
No wonder most historians wouldn't give Carrier the time of day.

I agree. Carrier completely ignores the obvious fact that the churches already believed a basic set of facts about Jesus. The fact that the churches existed are concrete evidence of this. IN addition, Paul's greeting in nearly every one of the letters reiterate this. Paul was not writing a 'Letter to the Editor' to introduce people to Jesus. They obviously had that background knowledge.

It does seem to make assumptions about Pauls writings, and then complains when those assumptions are not met. Apparently, these "critical thinkers" haven't considered that perhaps there starting expectations could be wrong. I might assume, that they have not read the material trying to understand it.

**The Grand Nudger** · July 31, 2018 at 2:13 pm

Is there some specific "starting expectation" that you had in mind?

**Minimalist** · July 31, 2018 at 3:25 pm

(July 31, 2018 at 1:24 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(July 31, 2018 at 1:10 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I always found this passage in Carrier's On The Historicity of Jesus to be most amusing and enlightening.

Carrier continues...

None of which seems to stop jesus freaks from yammering on about fucking "paul."

That is absolutely horrible logic.
No wonder most historians wouldn't give Carrier the time of day.

Just because you are a shithead who can't understand basic English does not mean that anyone has to pay attention to your apologetic horseshit. Let me know when you grow up.... if ever.

Fairy tales are not true, sonny.

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