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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 1:49 pm
(August 9, 2018 at 1:04 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: (August 9, 2018 at 12:58 pm)alpha male Wrote: I never argued that Canada shouldn't have subsidies. I specifically said that it's their own business whether to do so or not.
I wasn't accusing you of hypocrisy, I was saying that Trump's policies and rhetoric were hypocritical. If I misspoke, I apologize.
(ETA: Since Trump's tax cuts applied across the board, and not all foreign imports from all nations are subsidized, it still amounts to hypocrisy for him to say that he is simply trying to level the playing field.)
Yet his voters do not understand that billionaire tax breaks SWAMP any of the crumbs the working class would get. That creates long term debt.
On top of that the tariffs 45 claims he'll force other countries to pay, are NOT paid by them, but American consumers because the cost of foreign material gets passed on to the buyer.
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:07 pm
(August 9, 2018 at 1:04 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I wasn't accusing you of hypocrisy, I was saying that Trump's policies and rhetoric were hypocritical. If I misspoke, I apologize.
(ETA: Since Trump's tax cuts applied across the board, and not all foreign imports from all nations are subsidized, it still amounts to hypocrisy for him to say that he is simply trying to level the playing field.)
Incorrect. The US had nearly the highest corporate tax rate in the world. The cut in rate simply leveled the overall playing field.
https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-inco...orld-2016/
Quote:The worldwide average corporate tax rate has declined since 2003 from 30 percent to 22.5 percent.
Trump took ours from 35 to 21. He merely caught up with what the rest of the world has been doing over the past 15 years.
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:20 pm
The Corporate Tax Rate in China stands at 25 percent. Corporate Tax Rate in China averaged 29 percent from 1997 until 2018, reaching an all time high of 33 percent in 1998 and a record low of 25 percent in 2008.
The Corporate Tax Rate in Canada stands at 26.50 percent. Corporate Tax Rate in Canada averaged 38.15 percent from 1981 until 2018, reaching an all time high of 50.90 percent in 1981 and a record low of 26.10 percent in 2012.
https://tradingeconomics.com/
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:25 pm
(August 9, 2018 at 1:31 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Because:
1. it is better to export low value added activity abroad than to keep it at home, and if foreign tariffs accelerate that so much the better?
2. Tariffs always distort allocation of domestic resources by shifting available investment and labor from efficient and competitive industrial sectors that should be kept and expanded to inefficient and uncompetitive industries that should be jettisoned. If a foreign nation is willing to abuse its own resource allocation, who are we to complain?
The economy overall is not always worse off if a sector is losing rather than winning. You can only win overall for yourself by not fighting battles with others that’s not worth winning. With trump we instead devote our resources to winning battles that we are better off losing or not fighting.
Clear?
Wow, when you cut out the insults and vulgarities you come across as intelligent.
Yes, tariffs hurt the overall economy. However, I disagree that it's always best to write off certain sectors in order to achieve maximum efficiency. The country is made up of individual people. If a healthy manufacturing sector is necessary to preserve a healthy middle class, then I don't mind paying more for some goods in order to maintain that sector. You could argue that it would be more efficient to let it go, raise taxes, and support those workers through transfer payments, but IMO the dignity that many people derive from a decent job is an important intangible worth preserving.
That said, in general I don't think Trump sees most of his tariffs as being long-term. He probably thinks other countries will blink and remove their tariffs before too long.
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:28 pm
Meanwhile, real wages continue to stagnate....
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:38 pm
(This post was last modified: August 9, 2018 at 2:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 9, 2018 at 2:25 pm)alpha male Wrote: Yes, tariffs hurt the overall economy. However, I disagree that it's always best to write off certain sectors in order to achieve maximum efficiency. The country is made up of individual people. If a healthy manufacturing sector is necessary to preserve a healthy middle class, then I don't mind paying more for some goods in order to maintain that sector. You could argue that it would be more efficient to let it go, raise taxes, and support those workers through transfer payments, but IMO the dignity that many people derive from a decent job is an important intangible worth preserving. Too bad that these tariffs don't do anything to maintain any sector...precisely the opposite...and I'd give more credence to this "dignity" shit if the people apologizing for tarriffs hadn't created the shame complex in the first place.
I mean really..make them feel like shit because you fucked them..and then use that shame to justify fucking them further? I'll give the rightwingers this...that shit is downright biblical.
Quote:That said, in general I don't think Trump sees most of his tariffs as being long-term. He probably thinks other countries will blink and remove their tariffs before too long.
Yeah, great idea..play chicken with peoples jobs and "dignity". What could go wrong?
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:40 pm
(August 9, 2018 at 2:28 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Meanwhile, real wages continue to stagnate....
YEP!
The pay gap between the top and bottom since Reagan has exploded, even with the occasional minimum wage increase. The ratio even the few times it has gone up has not kept up with the cost of living. So when people say unemployment is low, that still has nothing to do with wages itself.
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:41 pm
"Vice President Mike Pence congratulates UMD Bulldogs ... for high school hockey title"
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:46 pm
(August 9, 2018 at 2:41 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: "Vice President Mike Pence congratulates UMD Bulldogs ... for high school hockey title"
. . . because most high schools have abbreviations that begin with 'U'. 
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RE: How Fucked Up Are Trumptards?
August 9, 2018 at 2:47 pm
(August 9, 2018 at 2:20 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: The Corporate Tax Rate in China stands at 25 percent. Corporate Tax Rate in China averaged 29 percent from 1997 until 2018, reaching an all time high of 33 percent in 1998 and a record low of 25 percent in 2008.
The Corporate Tax Rate in Canada stands at 26.50 percent. Corporate Tax Rate in Canada averaged 38.15 percent from 1981 until 2018, reaching an all time high of 50.90 percent in 1981 and a record low of 26.10 percent in 2012.
https://tradingeconomics.com/
First - so what? Yes, some countries are higher than us, some are lower. From a competitive view, it makes sense to be somewhere around the average or a little lower.
Second, I don't see corporate rates in your link, and your Canada figures represent a nominal rate which reduces to around 15% in reality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co..._tax_rates
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