(August 9, 2018 at 3:58 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(August 9, 2018 at 11:46 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Time is relative, if you lived on another planet you'd measure a day differently. Likewise God measures time differently than we do, and the bible is clear about this.
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. - Psalms 90:4
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. - 2 Peter 3:8

You are making my point, not yours, if the term 'days' are meaningless, then why use them at all, and why all this nonsense...

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Why the earth day when referring to a 'day' in all other parts of scripture, the theme ''and then there was evening, and there was morning'' meaning on earth for each stage of creation.  Why not simply use something like ''and then after a time the lord choose to carry on with his creation''

The term 'Days' aren't meaningless if it's clearly defined. The measurement of time is relative, it's not universal. We measure a day by the rotation of the earth, THAT"S SPECIFIC TO THE EARTH... If you lived on a different planet are you measuring time by earth standards?

The Bible makes it clear that God counts time differently than we do.

'Eve' simply means the period of time before an event and 'dawn' simply means beginning of a phenomenon or period of time, neither are explicitly referring to a 24hr period.

Every 'day', no matter how you measure it, has a beginning and end....

(August 9, 2018 at 6:33 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The term 'Days' aren't meaningless if it's clearly defined. The measurement of time is relative, it's not universal. We measure a day by the rotation of the earth, THAT"S SPECIFIC TO THE EARTH... If you lived on a different planet are you measuring time by earth standards?

Yet again you make my point, not yours, yes the bible was absolutely referring to earth days, it was very specifically recounting the creation of the planet we call earth, why are you being so slippery on this ?

Quote:The Bible makes it clear that God counts time differently than we do.

Well yes that's what the bible says, but clearly days in this sense are earth days (24 hour periods), if they were longer periods why not simply have the bible say so without all the torturous twisting and relying on what is not said, in a book that's meant to tell us exactly what happened.

Quote:'Eve' simply means the period of time before an event and 'dawn' simply means beginning of a phenomenon or period of time, neither are explicitly referring to a 24hr period.

Of course in this context it is, again you rather rely on the bible being vague (it could mean anything) in everything for your beliefs, if you are going to torture meanings of words then why not all the other words in the bible ?

Quote:Every 'day', no matter how you measure it, has a beginning and end....

Well it depends, what exactly does a day mean to you ?

And it still does not help you, not only is the bible putting the earth into existence before the sun (we know it could only happen the other way around), but the whole timescale from Adam (who we can very firmly place in time) bears no relationship to what we know of human history.

When you begin to rely for your beliefs on what is not said in the bible, then why believe the bible at all, why not simply make things up ?

That's a whole lot of words to tell us that magic book is either wrong or can't be taken for it's word..which I'm pretty sure everyone already knew..even you.

-9 year old child dies of cancer-

RESPONSE: "The Lord works in mysterious ways; we lowly mortals will never understand his reasons."



-Some stuff in the Bible might not be true-

RESPONSE: "The Lord isn't that mysterious. I mean, God might kill a few kids here and there, but he isn't the kind of monster who publishes an inaccurate biography."

(August 9, 2018 at 6:58 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(August 9, 2018 at 6:33 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The term 'Days' aren't meaningless if it's clearly defined. The measurement of time is relative, it's not universal.  We measure a day by the rotation of the earth, THAT"S SPECIFIC TO THE EARTH... If you lived on a different planet are you measuring time by earth standards?

Yet again you make my point, not yours, yes the bible was absolutely referring to earth days, it was very specifically recounting the creation of the planet we call earth,  why are you being so slippery on this ?

Quote:The Bible makes it clear that God counts time differently than we do.

Well yes that's what the bible says, but clearly days in this sense are earth days (24 hour periods), if they were longer periods why not simply have the bible say so without all the torturous twisting and relying on what is not said, in a book that's meant to tell us exactly what happened.

Quote:'Eve' simply means the period of time before an event and 'dawn' simply means beginning of a phenomenon or period of time, neither are explicitly referring to a 24hr period.

Of course in this context it is, again you rather rely on the bible being vague (it could mean anything) in everything for your beliefs, if you are going to torture meanings of words then why not all the other words in the bible ?  

Quote:Every 'day', no matter how you measure it, has a beginning and end....

Well it depends, what exactly does a day mean to you ?

And it still does not help you, not only is the bible putting the earth into existence before the sun (we know it could only happen the other way around), but the whole timescale from Adam (who we can very firmly place in time) bears no relationship to what we know of human history.

When you begin to rely for your beliefs on what is not said in the bible, then why believe the bible at all, why not simply make things up ?

*emphasis mine*

Answer this question.

If the earth was here before the sun as you state, how are 24 hours being measured?

(August 9, 2018 at 7:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(August 9, 2018 at 6:58 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Yet again you make my point, not yours, yes the bible was absolutely referring to earth days, it was very specifically recounting the creation of the planet we call earth,  why are you being so slippery on this ?


Well yes that's what the bible says, but clearly days in this sense are earth days (24 hour periods), if they were longer periods why not simply have the bible say so without all the torturous twisting and relying on what is not said, in a book that's meant to tell us exactly what happened.


Of course in this context it is, again you rather rely on the bible being vague (it could mean anything) in everything for your beliefs, if you are going to torture meanings of words then why not all the other words in the bible ?  


Well it depends, what exactly does a day mean to you ?

And it still does not help you, not only is the bible putting the earth into existence before the sun (we know it could only happen the other way around), but the whole timescale from Adam (who we can very firmly place in time) bears no relationship to what we know of human history.

When you begin to rely for your beliefs on what is not said in the bible, then why believe the bible at all, why not simply make things up ?

*emphasis mine*

Answer this question.

If the earth was here before the sun as you state, how are 24 hours being measured?

The bible has the earth before the sun, in fact before any stars were visible from earth, something we know is not possible.
So given that it is not possible, why put any faith in it ?  Again you make my point, the bible clearly has a (earth) day a very specific amount of time.

The sun (light) is created on the first day  at least according to the bible, something we know is not true, be it a billion years, a trillion or 24 hours, but again why so slippery when the bible clearly means a 24 hour period.

And again we have Adam, we can put a very clear and specific time period on human creation, the fall etc, we know humans have been around for much much longer, the bible (again) is wrong, you seem to rely more on what the bible does not say, rather than what it does.
Hardly a holy book full of god's wisdom when you have to twist and torture what it says in a vain attempt not to look stupid.

I think YEC's are nuts, but at least they are more honest and true to the bible as they read it.

(August 9, 2018 at 8:19 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(August 9, 2018 at 7:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: *emphasis mine*

Answer this question.

If the earth was here before the sun as you state, how are 24 hours being measured?

The bible has the earth before the sun, in fact before any stars were visible from earth, something we know is not possible.
So given that it is not possible, why put any faith in it ?  Again you make my point, the bible clearly has a (earth) day a very specific amount of time.

The sun (light) is created on the first day  at least according to the bible, something we know is not true, be it a billion years, a trillion or 24 hours, but again why so slippery when the bible clearly means a 24 hour period.

And again we have Adam, we can put a very clear and specific time period on human creation, the fall etc, we know humans have been around for much much longer, the bible (again) is wrong, you seem to rely more on what the bible does not say, rather than what it does.
Hardly a holy book full of god's wisdom when you have to twist and torture what it says in a vain attempt not to look stupid.

I think YEC's are nuts, but at least they are more honest and true to the bible as they read it.

*emphasis mine*

If the sun was created on the first day then what does this mean?

Quote:Genesis 1


13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Again, If the sun was created on the third day, how do you figure the 'evening' and 'morning' are speaking of a 24 hour period?

(August 9, 2018 at 9:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(August 9, 2018 at 8:19 pm)possibletarian Wrote: The bible has the earth before the sun, in fact before any stars were visible from earth, something we know is not possible.
So given that it is not possible, why put any faith in it ?  Again you make my point, the bible clearly has a (earth) day a very specific amount of time.

The sun (light) is created on the first day  at least according to the bible, something we know is not true, be it a billion years, a trillion or 24 hours, but again why so slippery when the bible clearly means a 24 hour period.

And again we have Adam, we can put a very clear and specific time period on human creation, the fall etc, we know humans have been around for much much longer, the bible (again) is wrong, you seem to rely more on what the bible does not say, rather than what it does.
Hardly a holy book full of god's wisdom when you have to twist and torture what it says in a vain attempt not to look stupid.

I think YEC's are nuts, but at least they are more honest and true to the bible as they read it.

*emphasis mine*

If the sun was created on the first day then what does this mean?

Quote:Genesis 1


13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Again, If the sun was created on the third day, how do you figure the 'evening' and 'morning' are speaking of a 24 hour period?

Exactly, the bible makes no sense.
But given that it is so wrong, why believe it at all, here it has it on the first act of creation.... It cannot precede the first day AND be done on the third day. That though is not your only problem, vegetation (which we know relies on sunlight) was created the day before the sun in your account it simply would not survive. The point being the bible cannot be trusted at any level.

Quote:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

You can't have it both ways, Genesis is a real mess it contains at least two different creation stories, day and night are created on day one.. and day three !
https://www.bbc.com/education/guides/zg3vxfr/revision/1

(August 9, 2018 at 9:11 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(August 9, 2018 at 9:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: *emphasis mine*

If the sun was created on the first day then what does this mean?



Again, If the sun was created on the third day, how do you figure the 'evening' and 'morning' are speaking of a 24 hour period?

Exactly, the bible makes no sense.
But given that it is so wrong, why believe it at all, here it has it on the first act of creation.... It cannot precede the first day AND be done on the third day

Quote:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

You can't have it both ways, Genesis is a real mess it contains at least two different creation stories
https://www.bbc.com/education/guides/zg3vxfr/revision/1

Have you not considered that you're interpretation is wrong?

God is light.

Isaiah 60:19

Quote:The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory

Revelation 22:5

Quote:And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 21:23

Quote:And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

It clearly states in the beginning that the spirit of God moved over the face of the earth.

Now, do you still interpret 'light' as meaning the sun?

(August 9, 2018 at 7:21 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: -9 year old child dies of cancer-

RESPONSE: "The Lord works in mysterious ways; we lowly mortals will never understand his reasons."



-Some stuff in the Bible might not be true-

RESPONSE: "The Lord isn't that mysterious. I mean, God might kill a few kids here and there, but he isn't the kind of monster who publishes an inaccurate biography."

God Himself says some of the stuff in the Bible isn't true. Several times in fact. Unfortunately he did not leave a list of the bad shit.

1 Kings 22 (KJV)
23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18 (KJV)
22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.


Jeremiah 4 (KJV)
10 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.

Ezekiel 14 (KJV)
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Ezekiel 20 (KJV)
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;