(August 12, 2018 at 10:16 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 1:06 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

My argument is with you, not with your god.  Perhaps he's a swell guy and there are clear proofs and valuable guidance, but if I depend upon my interactions with you to find that out, I never will.  You're a cipher, Mystic.  A nothing.

No your problem is against me only because of your opposition to God's proofs. Otherwise, there is no personal problem between you and I.

Mystic, you are not a victim here merely because we are not buying your arguments. We take on Christians and Jews and even Buddhists too.

Our problem with you is LACK OF EVIDENCE, nothing more.

Nobody is out to harm you or have you arrested or force your religion out of existence. We are simply not buying your arguments.

(August 12, 2018 at 11:09 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 10:16 am)MysticKnight Wrote: No your problem is against me only because of your opposition to God's proofs. Otherwise, there is no personal problem between you and I.

Nobody is out to harm you or have you arrested or force your religion out of existence. We are simply not buying your arguments.

Brian, I want you to be honest. Not speaking for yourself but the attitude of others here, do you honestly believe if robust conclusive clear proofs were offered, people here would accept them?

(August 12, 2018 at 10:59 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 10:56 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Ignoring the fact that going to the Quran and the family hasn't helped your case any, as pointed out previously, both suck, the fact that you excuse your pathetic displays as duty simply illustrates two things.  First, that you don't understand morality and responsibility.  The "just following orders" defense didn't work for the Nazis at Nuremberg and it doesn't exonerate you for being a moron, a liar, and recklessly immoral.  Second, if it indeed is your duty to God, then that god is an idiot who has made a terrible strategic mistake.  Since I'm pretty sure that God is not such an idiot, I can only conclude that you follow a false god and your stupid Dawah is just the pathetic outworkings of a corrupt and false religion grabbing for power regardless of how it must distort truth and morals to do so.

Every human is capable of reasoning to high levels of enlightenment. When your motivations hate what reason leads to, naturally, you going to misuse it.  You can conclude whatever you want... your misguidance is due to you. Not due to God, not due to me, not due anyone but you, if anyone were to be blamed, it would be the dark enemy of humanity, but at the end,  he can't force you either, it's a choice you do consistently to heed his voice and ignore the call of the caller of God and the Guide of our time.

You haven't demonstrated any misguidance, so your reply is nothing but a pointless and groundless ad hominem. But by all means, continue showing that you suck at logic, lie to serve your agenda, and are just generally an asshole who can't accept the truth. You and your God are false. End of story.

And for what it's worth, again with the bullshit about "hating God." I don't hate God, I don't even hate the idea of God. If such a being plausibly existed with all the shiny parts that religious idiots like you brag about, and none of the bad bits which also exist, he would be an enviable character. That still wouldn't establish that he exists. Simply because something is desirable doesn't necessarily make it true, though you apparently have confused the two in your personal spiritual quest. No, Mystic, I hate falsehoods, idiots, liars, and false religions, as any sane and reasonable person would. And beyond that, I regard the subject largely with equanimity. There is always going to be such in the world, I don't get alarmed by that simple truth. My analysis of your religion and your arguments isn't flawed because I have an abiding respect for truth and virtue, and detest their enemies. It's simply an incidental fact of my being. My criticisms of you and your religion are spot on, and your attributing any supposed nefarious motives and influence to me is just more sophistry and lies.

Whether I demonstrate guidance/misguidance or whatever you want, you have clearly demonstrated you are not in the state to accept proofs.

(August 12, 2018 at 11:20 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Whether I demonstrate guidance/misguidance or whatever you want,  you have clearly demonstrated you are not in the state to accept proofs.

You mean rational and clear headed? Yeah, people in such states generally don't accept bogus proofs and obvious lies.

(August 12, 2018 at 11:22 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 11:20 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Whether I demonstrate guidance/misguidance or whatever you want,  you have clearly demonstrated you are not in the state to accept proofs.

You mean rational and clear headed.  Yeah, people in such states generally don't accept bogus proofs and obvious lies.

Whatever you tell yourself you can, but I won't affirm the deception you deceive yourself with.

(August 12, 2018 at 11:20 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Whether I demonstrate guidance/misguidance or whatever you want,  you have clearly demonstrated you are not in the state to accept proofs.

I have proof that I am dating Angelina Jolie.

She exists and I exists so that makes it true just because I like the idea.

You don't believe me you say? How is that you reject that claim without trying to disprove it?

It goes back to the old saying, "Claims are like assholes, everyone has one."

Christopher Hitchens, "That which can be claimed without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

Mystic, nobody is saying you personally are a bad person, we are arguing that you have a false perception of reality.

Just because you desperately want something to be true, does not make it true.

(August 12, 2018 at 11:23 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 11:22 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: You mean rational and clear headed.  Yeah, people in such states generally don't accept bogus proofs and obvious lies.

Whatever you tell yourself you can, but I won't affirm the deception you deceive yourself with.

That's fine, Mystic. As clearly demonstrated, you aren't a reliable guide to the truth anyway, so it would be foolish of me to look to you for affirmation of anything. Your refusal itself is evidence I'm on the right path.

(August 12, 2018 at 11:25 am)Brian37 Wrote: Mystic, nobody is saying you personally are a bad person, we are arguing that you have a false perception of reality.

Whether people are or not, doesn't matter. Some people do, some people don't. I don't care for your judgement at all. 

Obviously people that are misguided will see the guided as having a false perception of reality, but it's the guided by guidance and proofs from God that are correct at the end of the day.

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(August 12, 2018 at 11:27 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 11:23 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Whatever you tell yourself you can, but I won't affirm the deception you deceive yourself with.

That's fine, Mystic.  As clearly demonstrated, you aren't a reliable guide to the truth anyway, so it would be foolish of me to look to you for affirmation of anything.  Your refusal itself is evidence I'm on the right path.

Whatever you want to conjecture and build more conjecture upon, and make a giant mess of things, you are welcome to.  Just don't blame me for it.

(August 12, 2018 at 11:27 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Whatever you want to conjecture and build more conjecture upon, and make a giant mess of things, you are welcome to.  Just don't blame me for it.

I'll blame you for the things you are responsible for, independent of the bullshit that is your religion. There is no conflict in condemning both.