(August 20, 2018 at 11:47 am)robvalue Wrote: I don't see how his belief being religious is even relevant here at all, except as attempted shielding from the law.

(August 18, 2018 at 10:26 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: Well we don't really know all the circumstances, but I would wager a guess that they would bake an identical cake to the one described if it were for a Christian baptism.

If that's true that means their objection is to the person, which really isn't any of the baker's business. I'd be curious though if they ask what the cake is for, or if that information was volunteered.

Either way, I was undecided on this before, because like you I don't think artists or really anyone should be forced to produce anything they don't want to. But that doesn't really seem to be what's going on.

The cake order described doesn't sound that special. It doesn't sound like a gay cake or a trans cake. Its not being asked to have two brides on it. It just sounds like a run of the mill cake that could be used to celebrate anything.

If they would make that same cake for a different person or a different celebration. It's just plain and simple bigotry. It's also strikes me that it's not really any of the baker's business what the cakes are used for.

(August 20, 2018 at 12:27 pm)alpha male Wrote: You should read the material before commenting. The person went out of their way to tell the bakery what the cake was for. And, on the day that the first case was decided. This was intentional. I suppose Divine thinks it was done out of love...

(August 20, 2018 at 12:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I can see both sides of the argument, and have usually leaned towards the right of a bakery owner to not create a cake for an event that he/she does not morally agree with.

This is an extreme example, but the way I see it is, if I owned my own bakery and someone came in and asked me to make a cake with a swastika on it and write "White Supremacy" on it, for some sort of rally they were having, I would absolutely refuse. And I would hope I wouldn't be legally forced by the government to do it.

I'm willing to discuss this and have my mind changed, though, if someone brings up a good point.

(August 20, 2018 at 12:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I can see both sides of the argument, and have usually leaned towards the right of a bakery owner to not create a cake for an event that he/she does not morally agree with.

This is an extreme example, but the way I see it is, if I owned my own bakery and someone came in and asked me to make a cake with a swastika on it and write "White Supremacy" on it, for some sort of rally they were having, I would absolutely refuse. And I would hope I wouldn't be legally forced by the government to do it.

I'm willing to discuss this and have my mind changed, though, if someone brings up a good point.

(August 20, 2018 at 12:40 pm)Kit Wrote:

(August 20, 2018 at 12:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I can see both sides of the argument, and have usually leaned towards the right of a bakery owner to not create a cake for an event that he/she does not morally agree with.

This is an extreme example, but the way I see it is, if I owned my own bakery and someone came in and asked me to make a cake with a swastika on it and write "White Supremacy" on it, for some sort of rally they were having, I would absolutely refuse. And I would hope I wouldn't be legally forced by the government to do it.

I'm willing to discuss this and have my mind changed, though, if someone brings up a good point.

That's the difference.

You're not supporting "Hitler".

How is that relational to a baker refusing a cake for a gay couple?

Are you stating with what you have posted that the both are comparable?

(August 20, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's the thing though. It doesn't matter what the cause is. As far as the law is concerned, either a Baker is allowed to refuse to bake a cake for an event he is morally opposed to, or he isn't.