(August 25, 2018 at 10:03 am)IWNKYAAIMI Wrote: If God actually exists, and is truly good, then all truly good people should be rewarded regardless of what they believe.

While this is true,  what one believes often affects the status if someone is good or bad. Also to the extent we are honest to ourselves and honestly strive for the truth is also a key determinant of one's goodness, on the extreme end of evil is when one is stubborn to God's proofs and opposes God's light and tries to do away with it with conjecture and speaking and holding on to falsehood and preferring it over truth all out of rebellion to God and his chosen ones.

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(August 25, 2018 at 8:58 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 25, 2018 at 1:38 am)IWNKYAAIMI Wrote: A question for those who believe that they are going to somewhere lovely after their deaths.
How can you possibly have any idea what you are signing up for? You invest time effort and emotional energy trying to ensure that you end up in heaven/paradise whatever, what if it's crap when you get there?

When I invest even small amounts on short breaks, I will always read up about the destination, read reviews, talk to people who have been there to try establish whether it's worth the investment. I question, where will I be staying? Will there be anything of interest for me to do? Is it value for money etc.. This usually insures a decent break or holiday.

Can any of you explain to me exactly what you are expecting? or are you happy to admit that you haven't got a clue what you've signed up for? If I was going somewhere forever I would want to know.

First I want to point out that if a Christian is only following Jesus in this life for the sole purpose of attaining paradise, he/she is probably going about it the wrong way. We should be following Jesus because Jesus is good, and we desire goodness for it's own sake. Even if Heaven didn't exist at all, as humans, most of us naturally have a certain attraction and admiration towards that which is good.

As for what the afterlife will be like, exactly, that I don't know. It is a matter of faith. But we can deduce that IF God does in fact exist, and if God truly is goodness and love, then being completely consumed within Him will be the ultimate fulfillment.

Desiring proximity to God and loving his creation for the face of God that is in them vs desiring goodness for goodness sake, I would say the former is the heart of goodness while the latter is just conjecture people came up with but has no meaning.

(August 26, 2018 at 9:40 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Paradise should only be loved due it being understood it's a place of proximity to God and place where one increases in love of God:

The Commander of the Faithful said, 'The best thing in the Garden and the sweetest is love of Allah, love in Allah, and praise for Allah.' And Allah has said,

وَآخِرُ دَعْوَاهُمْ أَنِ الْحَمْدُ لِلّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ
The last of their supplication shall be "Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds", (10:10)


because when they see the blessings that exist in the Garden, love is aroused in their hearts and then they call out, 'Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds.'

Thanks for the reply MK. I'm specifically wondering what you personally expect of paradise, what have you been told that you can expect to see, feel, experience? you must surely have some of your own thoughts about your eternal existence. For example: Are you in paradise as you were at the time of your earthly death, or otherwise? Are you expecting to be reunited with lost loved ones? Do you see yourself as having some sort of eternal purpose? Do you believe that unbelievers go to the other place?
Thanks in advance.

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(August 26, 2018 at 9:41 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(August 25, 2018 at 11:16 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: LR, you hijack and ruin every thread you touch.

I know LC, I know......it must be very hard to be unable to prove LR wrong.

Isn't it?  

So the idea is to avoid him.  

It's LFC

(August 26, 2018 at 4:00 am)IWNKYAAIMI Wrote:

(August 25, 2018 at 8:55 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well, if we think Christianity is true, then we should "bother" to follow it for that reason. Because we should seek and follow truth.

Even when there is a threat involved? If it was just a case of following because you think it's somehow a good way to live your life then fair enough, but it isn't is it? Christians want to be saved, Christians want others to be saved, live your life this way or else! And for what? Judging by the massive response to my original question from believers, nobody knows for what.

I think a person can only go so far if they are living a certain way for the sole reason of avoiding something, and not because they truly desire goodness and truth. As it is with all things, if you don't love what you are doing, you are bound to fail at it at some point, in some way. A person should follow Jesus because they value, and have a real desire for, goodness and truth.

(August 26, 2018 at 10:43 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 26, 2018 at 4:00 am)IWNKYAAIMI Wrote: Even when there is a threat involved? If it was just a case of following because you think it's somehow a good way to live your life then fair enough, but it isn't is it? Christians want to be saved, Christians want others to be saved, live your life this way or else! And for what? Judging by the massive response to my original question from believers, nobody knows for what.

I think a person can only go so far if they are living a certain way for the sole reason of avoiding something, and not because they truly desire goodness and truth. As it is with all things, if you don't love what you are doing, you are bound to fail at it at some point, in some way. A person should follow Jesus because they value, and have a real desire for, goodness and truth.

In your opinion CL, do you think that the majority of Christians follow Jesus for the above reason, or for the comfort of believing they can live on forever?

(August 25, 2018 at 8:58 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: First I want to point out that if a Christian is only following Jesus in this life for the sole purpose of attaining paradise, he/she is probably going about it the wrong way. We should be following Jesus because Jesus is good, and we desire goodness for it's own sake.

First, I agree with you that prostituting one self in whatever way is required to gain admittance is unseemly.  But more interesting to me is the matter of why one follows Jesus.  There can be no better reason for following Jesus than the one you give.  But if following someone known to be good is required to attain the goodness we desire for its own sake, I have to wonder who Jesus followed.  If Jesus didn't follow anyone, and we're sincere about wanting to do it his way, perhaps true following should omit imitation.  If Jesus' way was to follow his own conscience, then anyone wishing to follow might want to start there.

(August 25, 2018 at 8:58 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Even if Heaven didn't exist at all, as humans, most of us naturally have a certain attraction and admiration towards that which is good.

As for what the afterlife will be like, exactly, that I don't know. It is a matter of faith. But we can deduce that IF God does in fact exist, and if God truly is goodness and love, then being completely consumed within Him will be the ultimate fulfillment.

We have this in common.  I find nature and the biosphere to be truly good.  When I die I hope for every speck of my body to be consumed by nature and find a home in the body of some other creature.  I only hope no lion or bacteria takes too big a bite prematurely; I'd prefer natural causes followed by consumption by nature.

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(August 25, 2018 at 8:55 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 25, 2018 at 11:16 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: LR, you hijack and ruin every thread you touch.

Lol. Yes but only because people let him. I would just ignore completely.

I think that is great advice.  I'd suggest that anyone who wants to discuss this thread seriously first place Rik on ignore.  Then, when you want to enjoy some Rik inspired humor, take him back off ignore and look for him in one of his favorite threads.

(August 26, 2018 at 11:00 am)IWNKYAAIMI Wrote:

(August 26, 2018 at 10:43 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think a person can only go so far if they are living a certain way for the sole reason of avoiding something, and not because they truly desire goodness and truth. As it is with all things, if you don't love what you are doing, you are bound to fail at it at some point, in some way. A person should follow Jesus because they value, and have a real desire for, goodness and truth.

In your opinion CL, do you think that the majority of Christians follow Jesus for the above reason, or for the comfort of believing they can live on forever?

For those I know in my personal life, my friends and family, I'd say the former. But as for all Christians worldwide, I really don't know. There are a lot of bad ones out there, unfortunately.

(August 26, 2018 at 11:04 am)Whateverist Wrote: First, I agree with you that prostituting one self in whatever way is required to gain admittance is unseemly.  But more interesting to me is the matter of why one follows Jesus.  There can be no better reason for following Jesus than the one you give.  But if following someone known to be good is required to attain the goodness we desire for its own sake, I have to wonder who Jesus followed.  If Jesus didn't follow anyone, and we're sincere about wanting to do it his way, perhaps true following should omit imitation.  If Jesus' way was to follow his own conscience, then anyone wishing to follow might want to start there.

Bang on that is, well put.

(August 26, 2018 at 11:04 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(August 25, 2018 at 8:55 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Lol. Yes but only because people let him. I would just ignore completely.

I think that is great advice.  I'd suggest that anyone who wants to discuss this thread seriously first place Rik on ignore.  Then, when you want to enjoy some Rik inspired humor, take him back off ignore and look for him in one of his favorite threads.

Ok, ok........I will not bother you anymore and let you discuss this thread seriously.

All I wanted to know was the meaning of the word Truth from brother Kit (still waiting).
That's all.  

(August 25, 2018 at 3:41 am)ignoramus Wrote: Heaven is full of all the good things like brocolli and brussel sprouts and self control and none of the bad evil things like bacon and alcohol and kinky sex.
I think I'll go push an old lady in front of a bus...

Archbishop of Canterbury to dying wealthy landowner: “Heaven is for those people who like what goes on in heaven. Like talking to god, watering pot plants, those kind of things. While hell is for those who like war, fornication, and the like.”

Heaven is linked to desiring God.  I can't experience God beyond what he reveals of himself to my heart and what I am connected to from Him.

How will higher realms closer to his being be, I don't know.

The interaction space perhaps will be similar to this world, perhaps it won't.